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Original poster

Dealing with inflammatory posts re Trans on MN

835 replies

womanformallyknownaswoman · 07/04/2018 17:37

I am concerned to see the message below from MNHQ at the end of the T thread. Regarding posts that I consider "goady", I have a personal policy of not feeding them, not engaging and not rising to the bait. I ignore them. OPs looking for conflict as a way to feed themselves won't get it from me. Firstly, it's exhausting-they are not interested in dialogue, despite what they say, and secondly the best way to deal with them, imo, is to starve them of attention and not rise to the bait. Don't give them what they want i.e. a fight and conflict.

My concern is I predict there will be a lot more new threads and OPs looking for a fight, as the public becomes more aware of the issues and the tide starts to turn against TRAs. They will want to try and get this Place closed down for discussion, and none of us want that to happen.

Personally I have found it empowering to learn how not to engage and to turn it back on them if absolutely necessary, by the use of ridicule and short rebuttals of their nonsense. I am happy to share some techniques if it will help plus learn more from others. There's no point in trying to score points and win all the arguments they make as it's the engagement down their rabbit holes they want - they literally feed off conflict. They're anti-social remember, so any attention is better than none. They want to keep you coming back and arguing, so they can derail, prolong, provoke and generally make life difficult for MNHQ - to force them to take action. The negative attention "turns on" those looking for a fight….so please don't feed them, ignore them and lets keep this place open.

Message for MN:

Hi all

Since this thread is getting near its end, this seems like a good moment to make a really serious point.

We've just made some more deletions on this thread, and we're pretty exasperated tbh - we feel we're running out of ways to say 'please stick within the TGs or risk losing MN as a place to discuss this issue.'

We're really proud of our commitment to free speech, and we put a huge amount of time and resources to enabling this debate to take place - as many of you have pointed out, it's one of the few places left.

To those who haven't yet been able to stop and look at things from our end of the barrel - please understand that you're risking this space for everyone; if you really can't debate civilly with those you disagree with, it might be time to consider that MN is no longer the place for you. We're sorry to have to say this - we don't like it one bit - but tbh nothing else seems to have got through so far: we're at a point of last resort.

Thanks to all those who modify their first instincts and manage to make their points in a calm, considered and civilised manner - even in the face of goadiness. We appreciate it (and so would Michelle.)

Thanks all

MNHQ

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 07/04/2018 23:10

Should we maybe pin this post then?

Like the 'listen up' thread at the top of the Relationships board?

Truscum · 07/04/2018 23:07

Also, having been unfortunate enough to witness TRA tactics on other sites I really wouldn’t put it past a few of the more unstable to deliberately post deliberately goady GC thread should to try to take this space from us.

However those should be easy enough to spot, as they haven’t even tried to understand gc feminists intentions so will look ‘off’.

If enough of us report them quickly enough when they pop up then hopefully HQ will understand it’s nothing to do with us and it won’t count against anyone here.

Or post the acronym and then proceed to give the lurkers a proper mumsnet show.

SirVixofVixHall · 07/04/2018 23:02

Yes agree truscum.

SirVixofVixHall · 07/04/2018 23:01

Yes, must remember the lurkers. But you know, women are angry, and that anger is righteous. Our safety and that of our daughters is at stake, and that makes me very angry indeed. Can we not express that at all do you think ? And if so why not ?

Truscum · 07/04/2018 22:59

The thought that this space could be taken away is terrifying to me.

I will certainly do everything I can to stay respectful and within the talk guidelines, though I know I’ve been deleted in the past for letting my frustrations get the best of me.

I do think it is a fine tightrope. On the one hand we should be ‘better’ than the TRA’s, on the other, I don’t want posters to start getting deleted for ‘misgendering’ if they aren’t being antagonistic and are just stating facts.

ZERF · 07/04/2018 22:25

A while ago though I do remember posters reminding each other and keeping each other in check. I missed the threads on Spartacus but picked up from lurking later on what had happened and also how posters were making efforts to keep allowing debate - by rising above.

This topic has exploded over the last few months. As said below, remember the lurkers.

Kneedeepinunicorns · 07/04/2018 22:24

I'll put my hand up and say I've been getting shorter on patience, to post to show annoyance rather than contribute and more ready to retaliate, simply because after a while of seeing the patterns and repetitions of nonsense it gets harder to patiently explain, yet again, instead of call it out.

I understand that has to stop. and yes, like the rest of this mess, it's extremely unfair and limiting, but it's a sacrifice worth making.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 07/04/2018 22:22

What reluctant and zerf said

ZERF · 07/04/2018 22:20

Great post mouss.

I do agree kate. And yes, I don't feel like I've seen many posts deleted on threads recently. It's perfectly possible.

ReluctantCamper · 07/04/2018 22:19

@KateMumsnet

I get you - the tone of debate from 'our' side does make me wince on ocaision.

I would much, much rather that you banned individual (GC) posters than stopped us talking. Come on, you know how important this is. We can't control each other, we can only ask nicely.

But you have the ban hammer.

MNHQ
KateMumsnet · 07/04/2018 22:15

Hi again all

Ach. The truth is, we're just not going to be able to describe the 'line' beyond which we'd consider a non-gender-critical poster to be goady - and tbh, the fact that you're focusing on that aspect of things makes us a bit worried that you've still not really understood the problem.

The bottom line is that we can't continue to host the debate if the tone is as antagonistic as it has been - it just confirms the prejudices of our critics and leaves us in an impossible position.

We think the acronym is brilliant and so is the idea of reminding one another not to rise - but there needs to be a general shift in the tone regardless of who else is on the threads, so that deletions are really, really rare. It is possible, because we see hundreds of extremely cogent expressions of a gender-critical position which don't go anywhere near crossing the line.

Moussemoose · 07/04/2018 22:15

This week marks the anniversary of the death of Dr .Martin Luther King Jr. the civil rights movement in the US in the late 1950s and early 1960s was defined by they go lower we go higher.

Think about those pictures of brave, calm black faces being abused. The white faces twisted with hatred and rage spitting and hurling abuse.

Just because 'they' behave worse is not an excuse to sink to their level. We are on the internet. Nobody is being spat at, hurt, abused. No dogs are being turned on us.

Calmly refuting arguments and taking the moral^ high ground does^ work. We absolutely hold ourselves to higher standards and we do so with pride.

ZERF · 07/04/2018 22:12

Sorry I'm being dumb. Yes just use regularly and if reported.

ZERF · 07/04/2018 22:11

It is difficult as certainly the op of the thread in question was polite and certainly didn't cry bigot or too much cis (only 1?) and it did feel at first like there was decent discussion and debate where they could keep up, though I know certain questions put to them were avoided.

At what point do we report? TGLWGH on its own could also work as a reminder to rein in any heated feelings? Or just reminders?

SciFiFan2015 · 07/04/2018 22:06

Thanks for this. I'm a lurker in this area and massively in love with the feminism boards, the GC stuff and the freedom of speech.

I love #TGLWGH

The op@womanformallyknownaswoman mentioned some other tips and tricks - could you PM me them please? No point sharing for all to see.

Thanks everyone and thanks @MNHQ

Kneedeepinunicorns · 07/04/2018 22:00

#TGLWGH Reported.

Yes. I'm in.

loveyouradvice · 07/04/2018 22:00

Hi guys.... totally agree ... they go low, we go high

And I'd suggest we post it in full at regular intervals - tglwgh will pass non-regular posters by! Although it may catch on..... And I suspect the regulars will be better at self-policing....

Great we can all stay rational and reasonable.....

PencilsInSpace · 07/04/2018 21:53

I think if we are obviously going to be held to a higher standard than goady people who post with an agenda, then i suggest we report with something like this:

TGLWGH. Reported.

Yes.

I'd like some sort of guidance from @MNHQ for where the goadiness line is for deletion on these posts. I'd only announce I was reporting on the thread if I knew there was a good chance it would be deleted.

ZERF · 07/04/2018 21:35

Agree.

Ereshkigal · 07/04/2018 21:29

I think if we are obviously going to be held to a higher standard than goady people who post with an agenda, then i suggest we report with something like this:

TGLWGH. Reported.

ReluctantCamper · 07/04/2018 21:25

The only posts I have reported have been ones that are or could be considered transphobic, after confidently asserting on a thread that there is no transphobia here and then being roundly proved wrong.

We have such good arguments on our side, there is no need for insults.

I haven't been on the T thread today, sounds like it went a bit sideways. But the first half was good. If a TRA wants to come onto a parenting website and say he wants to reach out to infertile women because they share the same experience, let him. It's all grist to our mill.

TGLWGH

thebewilderness · 07/04/2018 21:00

I also think it is a good idea to announce reporting a goady post so those who read it can stop a mo to consider if they want to take the bait.

Ereshkigal · 07/04/2018 20:58

Agree Red.

RedToothBrush · 07/04/2018 20:56

I give it six weeks tops til it gets closed down then.

Fine for people who can walk away. Not so fine for those of us who can't.

We are headed for a very bad place.

thebewilderness · 07/04/2018 20:52

Speaking only for myself I am convinced that we should always hold ourselves to a higher standard of behavior than we hold others in order to avoid misunderstandings.

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