Dealing with inflammatory posts re Trans on MN

The Telegraph had an item yesterday about the investigation by NHS of crimes committed on mixed sex wards that ought not to be.

The harassment laws were supposed to change this unrealistic attitude that threats and intimidation are not real crimes, and nothing need be done til physical injury occurs.

Mouthtrousers

So if gender is culturally determined, how is gender identity 'inate' ???

And shurely, shurely, gender is assigned at birth, whereas sex is observed

It's all arse-about-face

Yes, there would potentially be legal redress if they did something unlawful

And this is what worries me.
We are going to have to wait until something happens. And we know that women complaining of sexual assault are always believed and taken seriously.........

I am not quite sure, CharlieParley, if the peeps making these contradictory assertions are the deceived or the deceivers.
I suppose that is why MNHQ wants us to model the behavior of Michelle Obama's WTGLWGH.

I mean the claim "after about three months"

thebewilderness I must admit I'm rather disappointed how feeble these claims seem today.

Just read two studies, one on how many transmen continue to have periods and one on how few transwomen manage to suppress testosterone to female level.

So, not only is the claim false, it once again misses the point that 80 to 95% of trans ppl don't take any hormones at all.

As per your earlier linked information this statement is false, Sue0001

It is oestrogen and a testosterone blocker - which is the same chemical used for chemical castration.

The amounts of spironolactone taken may not be enough to induce chemical castration as if you take a high dose, that is potentially dangerous for your kidney.

It certainly does reduce testosterone to low levels.

Are you aware that any transitioning person after about three months on hormones is either infertile in the case of a trans man or with testosterone blockers a trans woman is chemically castrated

As per your earlier linked information this statement is false, Sue0001.

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms

Just popped in coz I wanted to know what seagulls have to do with FWR and it struck me how

a) wonderfully you've all dealt with the attempt to derail
b) how transparent the attempt to derail becomes when it is an almost word-for-word argument refuted just a few threads ago

and

c) I finally, really, completely understand the reason for this thread.

I originally disagreed because I only thought about how important these threads are in helping people, specifically lurkers and Googlers, help reach #peakGIT (as in Gender Identity Theory, suggested on the #peaktrans thread).

If we don't answer these TRA claims, that doesn't happen. But if we develop succinct and civil answers that would be enough to show the uninitiated that the claims can be refuted yet leave the seagulls starving.

Would this be a strategy that works for you as well, OP? I mean in addition to those you mention above?

Gender – often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth.

Abolishing sex means I will be assumed to be.... nothing. There are no words.

Gender identity - a person’s innate sense of their own gender, whether male, female or something else (see non-binary below), which may or may not correspond to the sex assigned at birth.

I don't have one of those.

Gender identity - a person’s innate sense of their own gender, whether male, female or something else (see non-binary below), which may or may not correspond to the sex assigned at birth.

I don't have one of those.

Sex –assigned to a person on the basis of primary sex characteristics (genitalia) and reproductive functions. Sometimes the terms ‘sex’ and ‘gender’ are interchanged to mean ‘male’ or ‘female’.

So once sex is abolished I will no longer exist.

I asked what the difference was between sex and gender and was told that female wasn't a gender.

I went to diversity and inclusion training and was told that new types of sexuality are going to be added to the legal protections... I didn't like to ask.

I think their inclusion under 'the trans umbrella' does harm to transsexuals but in some ways strengthens our cause as women.

I think the problem is that arguments about AGP can stray into "being worthy of getting a seat at the lunch table" territory, when there is no lunch table.

boatyardblues

Nearly wet my pants.

I wholly reject the proposition put forward that a man would self declare as a woman at risk of perjury with two years in jail to dress up to go in a woman’s space.

But how do you 'not live as a woman?'.

Sue0001 - what's your view on the best way to respond to inflammatory posts (in whichever ideological direction) here on FWR, as the OP asked?

For anyone interested in the current thinking on AGP in the clinical and psych community, there's a good review here published in 2017.

Spoiler: AGP is not at a discredited theory (despite its unpopularity amongst TRAs), does not appear in natal females (despite the poorly-constructed study sue mentions), and explains patterns of behaviour that other classifications cannot.

You know how if you feed the seagulls your chips at the seaside, they keep coming back for more and then start nicking your chips...

I fully support certain women’s only spaces for protective reasons. I’ve used them myself. It was a privilege to be supported by such understanding women who like me had been abused.

I still think this debate conflates many issues in particular self-declaration for binary trans men and women and calls for gender identity to be a protected characteristic in the Equalities Act. The second would cover the majority of transgender and gender non conforming people and the former a minority of trans people.

Only Scotland is considering a change in the Equalities Act. Amber Rudd has already ruled out changes to the Equalities Act in England on the Andrew Marr show.

Trans includes "cross dresser" aka AGP male fetishists.

Ophelia

Thank you for that helpful, succinct rebuttal. It will have helped any confused lurkers out there

Please can you reference where “AGP males are considered as transgender by Stonewall”