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Original poster

Dealing with inflammatory posts re Trans on MN

835 replies

womanformallyknownaswoman · 07/04/2018 17:37

I am concerned to see the message below from MNHQ at the end of the T thread. Regarding posts that I consider "goady", I have a personal policy of not feeding them, not engaging and not rising to the bait. I ignore them. OPs looking for conflict as a way to feed themselves won't get it from me. Firstly, it's exhausting-they are not interested in dialogue, despite what they say, and secondly the best way to deal with them, imo, is to starve them of attention and not rise to the bait. Don't give them what they want i.e. a fight and conflict.

My concern is I predict there will be a lot more new threads and OPs looking for a fight, as the public becomes more aware of the issues and the tide starts to turn against TRAs. They will want to try and get this Place closed down for discussion, and none of us want that to happen.

Personally I have found it empowering to learn how not to engage and to turn it back on them if absolutely necessary, by the use of ridicule and short rebuttals of their nonsense. I am happy to share some techniques if it will help plus learn more from others. There's no point in trying to score points and win all the arguments they make as it's the engagement down their rabbit holes they want - they literally feed off conflict. They're anti-social remember, so any attention is better than none. They want to keep you coming back and arguing, so they can derail, prolong, provoke and generally make life difficult for MNHQ - to force them to take action. The negative attention "turns on" those looking for a fight….so please don't feed them, ignore them and lets keep this place open.

Message for MN:

Hi all

Since this thread is getting near its end, this seems like a good moment to make a really serious point.

We've just made some more deletions on this thread, and we're pretty exasperated tbh - we feel we're running out of ways to say 'please stick within the TGs or risk losing MN as a place to discuss this issue.'

We're really proud of our commitment to free speech, and we put a huge amount of time and resources to enabling this debate to take place - as many of you have pointed out, it's one of the few places left.

To those who haven't yet been able to stop and look at things from our end of the barrel - please understand that you're risking this space for everyone; if you really can't debate civilly with those you disagree with, it might be time to consider that MN is no longer the place for you. We're sorry to have to say this - we don't like it one bit - but tbh nothing else seems to have got through so far: we're at a point of last resort.

Thanks to all those who modify their first instincts and manage to make their points in a calm, considered and civilised manner - even in the face of goadiness. We appreciate it (and so would Michelle.)

Thanks all

MNHQ

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
LangCleg · 08/04/2018 13:34

I'm good at crochet!

Is that womanly womaning enough?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 08/04/2018 13:26

Dunno upstart

I did a kit, it was very good. Had a bit of home that you stabbed with a needle

Very therapeutic (and painful if distracted ....dont do it in front of the telly)

UpstartCrow · 08/04/2018 13:24

I was wondering if you can do felting by taking the thread out of the sewing machine and using a free movement foot.

BoreOfWhabylon · 08/04/2018 13:21

@donquixotedelamancha - I second what loveyouradvice just said.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 08/04/2018 13:21

scarlet

I made a felted rabbit for easter...was very proud of myself Grin

Check out some of the animals people have felted...cant tell the difference with some of them

HomeTerf · 08/04/2018 13:20

Thanks loveyouradvice (love your username Grin)

In that spirit, hello to theheckiswrongwithyou. All posters welcome here if they wish to engage in good faith and with mutual respect. If not, it may not be a rewarding place to spend a Sunday afternoon.

Original poster
womanformallyknownaswoman · 08/04/2018 13:18

Yes I noticed the trolling - they really can't stand a group of women chatting - isn't it curious how they need to try and derail - as though they're owed something - really just like toddlers - waw-waw

OP posts:
AngryAttackKittens · 08/04/2018 13:17

Ah, but would it have lasted for 5 days like in the mumsnet tales of yore?

(The chicken, not the felting. Not sure how felting works.)

TeamOrders · 08/04/2018 13:15

I was going to make a delicious roast chicken with crunchy roasts and all the trimmings but DH has toothache. Hmm

loveyouradvice · 08/04/2018 13:15

Hometerf - totally agree - great idea to say Hello OP welcome to Mumsnet and ask them to explain a little more.... flags up to everyone including them - that they are welcome and that they are new.....and sadly may not be what they seem

DonQuixote - you are hugely welcome here .... I am deeply appreciative of men who engage in women's debate - especially this one - because as so many have rightly said - it affects us all and especially our children..... I also believe we will get much further if we work well with those men who want to move this forward.... outside of Mumsnet we have been finding some unusual allies.... and I think they are the vanguard of a much bigger "people movement" when people's brothers, fathers, husbands realise what is going on - and that they don't want it....

ScarletBegonias · 08/04/2018 13:14

Can't remember who it was but someone mentioned the pleasure they were getting from felting. That's something I have no experience of so I googled and found a fascinating YouTube video called "Felting for Beginners" or something like that. I might consider pursuing this.

AngryAttackKittens · 08/04/2018 13:10

(I'm thinking that talking about pretty much anything else might distract people from the urge to engage with the trolling attempts. Alternate distractions welcome!)

Ereshkigal · 08/04/2018 13:09

Sounds lovely.

AngryAttackKittens · 08/04/2018 13:08

Gosh, a woman telling a man his comment was sexist on a feminist forum - shocking.

Anyway, back to dinner. Panang curry is kind of like Thai red curry, but even more delicious imo, and richer because it has ground peanuts in it.

cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/3429/whats-the-difference-between-red-and-panang-curry

Ereshkigal · 08/04/2018 13:08

Unless the police can compel MNHQ to release people's personal info I'm not sure how this differs from threatening to sic your internet lawyer on someone 2005 style.

They can, but I don't see how a thread on a controversial public figure is "targeted harassment". There would be an awful lot of people on all sides in internet court if that were the case.

Original poster
womanformallyknownaswoman · 08/04/2018 13:07

There is no "one size fits all" solution - I agree with a lot of the points made. I don't like the idea of us policing each other too heavily as that feels like censorship and tone policing and like a cult.

I like this being a place where those genuinely interested in Gender Critical feminism can come and ask questions and learn. I like it being a centre of consciousness raising. I don't like clickbait and drama. I like "slow" threads where responses are considered. It's the fast-moving drama that will attract unwanted attention imo. However I do like that we can be a home for fledglings like Manfriday for example - which now seems to have taken on a life of its own - and that's good. It's flown the nest.

I come here for smart, funny, intelligent discussion with other women - a cut above the rest so to speak. It's such fresh air. I haven't liked the "clickbait" nature of some of the recent posts - e.g. here's another bloody awful thing that you-know-who has posted - it gets you-know-who the very attention they crave so I refuse that attention.

I was reflecting recently, and reminded by someone's comment, that most of us probably have the equivalent in a degree in GC feminism before we open our mouths here, so conditioned have we been to being silenced if we put a foot wrong. We already have humility and need some support to claim our rightful entitlement in the world and this self id debate. I want this to be place where women can put a foot wrong and be supported in their learning.

But I don't want this place to be a home for OPs who tell us we're wrong and spreading lies etc I don't want them to be given air. I don't care they say they're trans. It's not my job to argue with nonsense - so I don't. That's not debate - there's no humility of their part that we may have a point. They're not asking questions but telling us where we're wrong. If no-one responds, the post disappears and dies. I can practice confrontation elsewhere - Twitter for example. I don't want this place to become like that. Hence my encouraging discernment about who and what to engage with.

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 08/04/2018 13:04

I'm taking my dad out for a birthday lunch, Angry. Italian I think.

GoodyMog · 08/04/2018 13:04

No hate for trans people, plenty of empathy and sympathy for those who are trying to exist within a world that's so insistent on everyone fitting in narrow boxes - segregating clothes, interests, colours, toys, personality traits into "feminine" and "masculine". I can see why transitioning can be appealing, and I'm sure I'm not alone in understanding that. There are so many GNC women within feminism, many of whom have suffered as a result of our refusal to conform meekly.

Any hatred is reserved for those male bodied people who would abuse, attack, gaslight, and/or reduce women's rights. Surely you can understand that reaction?

donquixotedelamancha · 08/04/2018 13:04

@AngryAttackKittens. Must have crossposted with your PP.

If the implication here is that I've transformed into a delicate little flower who can't handle arguments, then nope.

The opposite, the implication was that you are happy to be bolshy so I assumed you wouldn't take offence.

it just leaves her with a very low opinion of the intelligence and self-awareness of the man making the comments.

"Robust" and "too sexist to even consider that a woman might know more about her experiences than you do" are not the same thing.

I made no comments about your experience of sexism. I didn't really disagree with your point, just thought it didn't go anywhere. I said: Certainly women's voices are often ignored, and women are sometimes criticised for things a man wouldn't be but obviously that wasn't sufficiently clear that I agreed with your sentiment- so I clarified and apologised.

You are playing the person rather than the ball, even with someone who supports you- on a thread about changing the tone of the forum to be less inflammatory. Insults because someone disagrees are exactly what the TRAs do.

I think we've derailed this enough, I will withdraw from further posts and apologise again.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 08/04/2018 13:04

Might me a freezer night here angry

Feeling very lazy (as usual)

Whats penang curry? Could google but its the laziness thing

Even typing that has tired me out

AngryAttackKittens · 08/04/2018 13:00

And now for something completely different! What's everyone planning to have for dinner? I'm thinking maybe panang curry with pork.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 08/04/2018 12:59

#TGLWGH

TheHeckIsWrongWithYou · 08/04/2018 12:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AngryAttackKittens · 08/04/2018 12:55

"A lady said something mean about me on the internet, please arrest her. Her name is TwigglyPuff57".

Unless the police can compel MNHQ to release people's personal info I'm not sure how this differs from threatening to sic your internet lawyer on someone 2005 style.

BoreOfWhabylon · 08/04/2018 12:52

On LM thread