Gender non conforming child (mine!).

interestign about single sex school. Both my ds and dd are in single sex schools becuase they happen to be the grammar school. Ds is very stereotypical, but I do think that the arts/cookign etc are not thought of as 'girl's' subjects. I am not sure though that a GNC kid would do well there, but then I have only met ds friends.

dd1 is a different matter, we thought long and hard about whether or not to send her to a single sex school, and she is GNC, (although we didn't have a name for it.)
We decided to send her, as we thought it would be a better environment, with no sexual pressure from the boys. And also no jokes about what she wears and hair cuts from the boys. We also thought she might find like minded kids there.
The school does have a very good reputation for pastoral car too.
It was the best decision we could have made, she is very happy there, and there is actually a trans boy in the sixth form, so the whole school is very aware.

The down side is that she has foudn a group of kids who are all identifying as gender non binary etc, and I am not sure the whole situation is very healthy

I totally agree with those saying talk more not less about it. I think if you can help him to have a ‘click’ moment before teenagehood and secondary school it will see him through. As in, wow how terribly sad that young people feel they have to physically change themselves in order to feel they are accepted. For me, it’s inherrently perverse and abusive that our society pushes this. It’s absurd that you should have to have your penis chopped off to be able to enjoy make up or musicals or dancing or feminist political thought! Help me to embrace who he is and know how to be critical of the culture and other opinions that might come his way. Don’t stay silent. I think it would be leaving him vulnerable to Mermaids ideology that prays on children having been made to feel wrong or ostracised for their preferences and personality.

Sorry I haven't read the thread yet.
I think the best way to go about it is to make it as normal as possible for him to like any toy. Otherwise I think they'll look for a reason they're 'different' and lock onto the trans thing. I think it's the same with many disabled people because they are pushed into feeling 'different' and want to know why. It's honestly so sad, and being pushed into taking hormones that wreck your body 😓

Daisy you sound really supportive, your child (? What noun to use? We don’t have good words for grown up children anyway), well they/your DD are lucky to have you.

Moo my DS did world book day as the Boy in The Dress. He did have jeans and tshirt underneath in case he changed his mind or was teased but the dress stayed on all day.

My dd now in her late 20s came out last year as non binary transgender.
She said she’d felt like this since around 14 year she old. But was too scared to do anything or talk about it...and didn’t even have a name for who she was until now. She’s has suffered years of anxiety because she was too scared to come out and reveal how she was feeling about herself. Years of relationships with lads that when things were getting serious she’s broke up. She’s is now seeing a psychologist and is on anti depressants.
I call her she but she’s not a she any more. I have to use the noun they or them. In my head she’s still my little girl, but I love her and support her and always will
All I can say is support your child if it’s a phase then it is. But if it’s something they continue with through life, they will be happy from the love and emotional support you gave them and the transition will be much easier for all of you I’m sure.

Just thinking about books, I wondered about Skellig? That's a boy/girl partnership. Haven't read it for a long time tho, but in my memory, it could be suitable.

Just putting this here as although Welsh folk music might not be your DS’s thing it’s great to see boys and girls playing harp, fiddle, guitar and dancing. It’s the first video on the fb page

www.facebook.com/trac.cymru?hc_ref=ARQ6IAAXJ6ZjB3lOEsykii1Xhr0JAYKadgWCimffx7fXvco-cpsSxNg38B0I_vurliY

My DS went to ballet and later to a musical theatre group where one of the older boys from ballet was enjoying singing and dancing. I struggled to find ballroom dancing too and I’m sure DS would have particularly loved the make up and sparkles and also struggled to find a choir.

I have a GNC DD1 (never knew there was a term for it) who has been through a lot of confusion in her teenage years.
I agree the internet is a godawful place for GNC teens.
We have always told her she is ok as she is, she will know what she wants when she is older, she can love who she wants etc.
She had therapy when she was 15 as she was very anxious.

She also has Aspergers (finally going through assessment but it’s pretty clear to me now) is in her first year at uni and since recently now in love with a girl.

To the poster who wrote about the private boys’ school, my son (17) is at a very selective boys grammar, and it has had quite the same effect. Lots of arts, music, drama etc, very tolerant and not pushing the tough alpha male role down everyone’s throat.
My son has gay friends who came out recently and he’s known them for almost 6 years and he’s been supporting one of them because he feared his parents’ reaction.
My son has always been very sensitive and he found friends at this school who are the same and he has grown into a resilient and still sensitive young man.
I have always told him it’s ok to cry, to like “girly” things and to just be who he is.
For a long time I thought he may be gay (falling prey to my own stereotypical thinking) but he is not and has had a girlfriend for 6 months now.

Our 9 yo DD2 wanted a pixie cut for ages and after going shorter for a while (from very long) she now has a pixie and tells everyone at school who says she is a boy that she is obviously a girl.
It suits her, she is my little feisty pixie.

Somehow none of my kids fall into the ‘typical’ boy/girl category 😄

I’d like to know more about GNC maybe to forward websites to my DD1, although she might know them already.
For years we have stalled/talked her out of binding citing the consequences for her health, but I know she is still interested.

Would he be interested in doing modern or acro dance?? How about all star Cheer - usually males end up there via gymnastics.

I'm surprised you can't find a Latin/Balloon dance class anywhere nearby

I think you are doing a great job but Y6 onwards the mobile phones turn up and the internet access is rampant and very likely the unpleasantness from others may start

Books with good boy-girl pairs or groups - Swallows and Amazons series.

Just to chuck in there once they are of an age where all their friends have phones you no longer have control over what they see on the internet. If they have no phone they can just look at a mate's. if you restrict what they can access on the internet, you can bet another child's parents will have not.

In my experience peers started to have access to internet-enabled phones from around 10yrs. Those that got them first seemed to be those whose parents worried least about which apps/sites they were looking at (e.g. Free rein on YouTube, that awful dance app that is ripe for grooming etc).

Once they are at secondary basically they all have phones and the game is up. It is quite different than primary and they grow up and become much more independent and independent-minded super fast.

The best protection is to talk to them about anything and everything long before they stumble across it via the prism of their mates.

You mentioned his dad... So that's a positive role model, right there. Teenage girls that I work with respond with astonished gratitude when I talk about what being a teenage girl is like from a personal perspective - how physically awkward and uncomfortable I felt, and how ambivalent I was about myself physically, and how others reacted to me, and trying to pick my way through other people's expectations. Maybe your son needs to hear about being an adolescent male from someone who's experienced it, assuming that's something your DP would be comfortable with (and even if it's not, to support your DS).

Sounds very much like my DS2. He is now almost 15 and at a specialist performing arts school surrounded by like minded kids.

I feel for you OP the only thing I can suggest is to use lots of really positive language around being a boy who doesn’t conform. The ‘Stories for boys who dare to be different’ book could be a good conversation starter. How about taking him to the pride festival? He can see that being a man can still be colourful, flamboyant and fun.

I think @DickTerfFin 's comment re secondary school is important - it can make or break a child. Choosing a school where there's lots of other creatives and subjects so that they don't feel "odd" is essential. Not Trans-ed like Goldsmiths though :(

All the advice is about teaching critical thinking skills early so maybe Google examples that are age appropriate to assist its development. So that he learns to discern, probe and discuss - to not take things at face value.

Also introduce the subject that boys and men come in all shapes and sizes and talk about Trans first - talk about how sad it is that some people feel distress and then imagine that cutting their body will help so they can rush into hasty actions that have awful, long term consequences. Whether by razor blades or surgery, the underlying message is the same.

Help his critical thinking - if he feels some distress, what would he do? Where would he seek help? Where would he turn if he felt he couldn't talk to you or father e.g. is there another significant adult(s)around? Talk about SM and the modern pressure to surgically alter oneself (use the Kardashians and Jenner as examples of people who made money by hurting their bodies - so money at no expense to themselves so to speak - in the dash for celebrity status).

Just keep a channel of communication open at all costs, and get a network of good, other reliable adults in place - so he feels "held" by a community. And limit internet access - Gates etc don't allow their kids on until late teens - until they have developed their critical thinking - limit time on it.

Good luck

Also wonder if you have female friends who are living the male stereotypes a bit, just to show that the stereotyping is nonsense?
I mean I’m a woman, don’t own any dresses, wear jeans and trainers everyday, spend no time on hair or makeup, etc etc. It’s all nonsense.

What hobbies/interests does he have? Ds2 has loads of female friends (I thought he may be gay, now I think not - he says he’s straight). He does a lot of drama, dance and ballet. I’d recommend it for your son if he has any interest at all. Ballet is great because for the boys it’s all about strength training as they get older and quite different from the things the girls are doing (but still with sensitivity and expression), but in the U.K. is still very much taught in a strong female environment. My son is terrified of his female ballet teacher. She’s badass.

Ds2’s best friends are mainly in the dance/drama world (he attends a boys school).

Also - although it sounds daft, the musical of Billy Elliot had quite a profound effect on my son. He really identified with it. Must dig out the film for him.

I can see why you are worried. I have a friend whose adult son has been pulled in by these forums (he is very vulnerable in other ways though, so very vulnerable to their effect). The sorts of conversations people above have about trans issues sound sensible. My son above (mid teens) has very sensible & quite nuanced opinions about trans issues.

I wonder whether learning a bit about history and other cultures would help him? I mean this idea that men only wear plain blue trousers with no sparkle just sounds ridiculous when you look back at paintings of kings in all their embroidery and jewels, or look at men from the Middle East in those long robes (sorry don’t know the word) or whoever.

There are lots of different fashions for men all around the world and throughout time - he doesn’t need to be a woman to like shiny things or whatever.

Captain! Yes - that's an excellent idea (I binge watched the latest version - It was really lovely).

What I really need is for netflix to release a dubbed version of anything like that, with the swearing beeped - because so many things would be appropriate to have on around the kids, if only they didn't swear.

I've prepped mine about this sort of thing the same way I've prepped him around religion. 'Some people believe X, so you should be polite, but daddy and I don't, and this is why'

So far, that seems to be working fairly well - neither of them will wear a pink t-shirt to school any more, but they have consciously made the choice rather than been persuaded or drifted into it, and can explain why (DS1 because there's a kid who wouldn't stop taking the mick about it, so for an easy life, and DS2 because he now has a 'school persona' which is black and skulls rather than pink and sparkly - again to avoid hassle)

Salt: I've read some really sad accounts of parents who tried to force their children to like 'boy' toys without success, so instead have forced them to 'socially transition'. My child was non-conforming. Making them like the clothes and toys they are supposed to like, instead of the clothes they like, is a pointless, frustrating, distressing and unnecessary battle that I wasn't prepared to pick.

I met the most amazing kids today at a rummage sale - Three very obvious brothers ranging from 9-13 at a guess. Two in jeans and hoodies mooching about chatting with their parents about stuff on tables, and their brother who was literally shining with delight as he pored over the tables of scarves and trinkets - he was dressed in a bright red ruched top with zips down both arms and a black fedora and a necklace, and just looking at him made me smile from ear to ear. He was completely one hundred percent happy with who he was, was blazing grins at everyone and it would have been impossible to be concerned for him. I know the outside world can be very different, but this family had completely nailed acceptance, and as a result he was true to himself and it shone.