Anything got a share token for time article on Miranda Yardley?

oops, thank you.

I re-read this bit of it. Love the bit about it being "an honour".... this is what it ought to be like..."this person said that being included as a woman is an honour and a privilege that you earn rather than force on other people, especially women"

"funnily enough, an older transwoman caught my eye. I’m not very good at recognising people so originally I thought, “Oh my goodness, maybe this is Heather Peto or someone.” So the transwoman came up to me, introduced himself and asked me what I was doing at the party, at which point I said, “Well…”…then I realised it was just a normal Labour Party member rather than anybody who had any position in the Labour Party and I said, “Well, I hate to say it but I’m being called in the press a famous transphobe.” And they were like, “Oh.” “But of course I’m not transphobic. I’m campaigning against the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act” at which case we both got a drink and we sat down at a quiet table. We spent about 20 minutes discussing the proposed changes of which this person wasn’t very aware of. Some things we agreed on and some things we didn’t. One of the points that we did agree on was that this person thought that forcing people to use preferred pronouns was a terrible thing because this person said that being included as a woman is an honour and a privilege that you earn rather than force on other people, especially women. Then we went around the party together. I can’t remember this person’s name unfortunately, but I know that they live in Cambridge and we had quite intimate conversations. This person was telling me all about their romance, love life and stuff so we had a very nice conversation and an intimate conversation.

Thanks

The interview was Venice Allan's (DrRadfem)

https://m.facebook.com/DRradfem/posts/2108975092654757

When looking at the comments afterwards you can "recommend" the ones you like - I did quite a few - very quick, just clicking (no registering needed) - I've no idea what influence this has - DOES ANYONE?

But imagine it means that

• Times editorial can look and see what their readers are thinking
• possibly some posts move up the list?

Your response to the labour inquisition is great Miranda - well done 👍 There is such a lack of logical and coherent thinking from Labour over this, it's shocking. Not that any of the other parties are any better - they are all like deer caught in the headlights not knowing which way to run....

Thank you Miranda . I hope you are ok, it must feel a bit surreal when twitter turns into real life.

@Miranda and others: what is the procedure from here?

Would someone be kind enough to repost the transcript from the other labour member's interview? (Posie, I think).

To The Times:

thanks for reporting this important issue. I've registered with your site.

Yes. Too young. And you would expect a man taking on that role to have some experience of working with women's issues.

womanformallyknownaswoman

Whilst I prefer MY to LM any day - this doesn't sit right with me:

I don’t have a problem with Madigan per se . . . and could see it possible for a male to act as a women’s officer.

It's not feasible for any man to act as a women's officer - that's the bloody point...

Yes I agree that a women’s officer should be female. My point is to show that even if we were to entertain the idea a male could fulfil that role, Madigan would not be the man for the job.

Excellent comments on that Times article.

The 'black woman' trope is often used by TRAs. I saw one last year that stayed with me. The TRA asked whether if a black woman went out with a bunch of white friends, and she decided to 'enjoy her body' by dancing on a table topless, would her friends be racist if they objected? The implication was 'yes'. Incidentally the word used was not 'black woman' but something much more old-fashioned.

Is "concerned for friend" not an option here? I don't have any friends who'd do something like that, but if they did my first thought would be more "are you OK/how much have you had to drink/ugh what am I going to do about that lairy bloke eyeing you up" than "is this appropriate or not based on skin tone?"

Miranda's reply to the LP interrogators is a classic that needs saving for reuse. I don't envy the poor woman who will be interviewing MY who has such robust arguments .

Thanks for posting. Great comments (although closed now it seems)

Miranda

WTF does the 'debate' keep referring to black people???!

It's an American thing, like identity politics itself.

Certain

@madigan_lils

This is @madigan_lils talking about the term "TERF":

"Yeah, doesn't seem like the best term. I'm not apologising for my behaviour."

WTF does the 'debate' keep referring to black people???!

a) it's never any other race

b) what is the relevance to race here anyway? Black, White, East Asian, South Asian, Middle Eastern ... whatever, you are still a male or female irrespective of your skin, hair, eye colour etc., not to mention your sexuality or disability.

Woman = adult human female. While the definition of adult is debatable, the other two aren't and ethnicity is completely irrelevant to that.

It seems to me that it's not "intersectionality" to keep bringing up race in this particular conversation. I'm clearly missing something (and am genuinely open to explanation rather than ranting here) because the very people who rail against colonialism and appropriation also seem to be the very people who keep bringing race into the conversation.

I assume these boards are predominately populated by white people, given it's a UK site, but if there are women of other races reading who can face it, I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts on the matter.

I also do love Miranda. He would never expect me to gaslight myself.

See my post above, Certain. New account.

No I can't find LM on twitter now. Maybe LM is taking that break...

It would tell me that the Labour Party has moved away from identifying and fighting material class-based oppression to championing the rights of the individual and their personal identity. This would position the Labour Party both socially and economically as neoliberal. It would also demonstrate that as well as being incapable of listening to women and taking their concerns seriously, the Party does not care for transsexuals.

Go, Miranda!

I bloody love Miranda. A person of great courage who is not afraid to interrogate themselves as well as other people. I wish I could say I was as brave as that.

Labour eats itself.
So Labour doesn’t like the kind of transwoman that empathises with other women, but loves the misogynistic kind? Ok, great, so we know where we all stand then. Is it wrong to want to hug Miranda? I’m actually a bit younger than Miranda but feel very maternalistic somehow.

How interesting. I'm not blocked!

LM has apparently deleted all tweets and opened a new account. @madigan_lils All previous blocks removed, according to a tweet I saw. Has someone perhaps been having a word?

I have better things to do than debate dull people, so I'm not going to do that anymore.

I think the term TERF poisons radical feminism and we should use transphobe instead. After all, they tend to have irrational fear and/or hatred.

[Hmm]

Miranda's superb response to the Labour Party:

mirandayardley.com/en/how-transgender-ideology-is-destroying-the-labour-party/