"Not All Men"

And of course being lefty man means bugger all in effect. It's what you say and do that makes a difference.

But every so often one of them comes out with something fairly light but still inherently sexist, and it hammers home how entrenched this attitude is.

I think it's really entrenched, I notice it everywhere, literally. I feel like it glosses over a lot of people because it's so normalised. Men now have to actually put some thought into how they interact with women now and they don't like it.

Welcome to our world is all I will say to that.

Yes it is not so cut and dried as posters wish to portray it here.

Calling out with a woman present CAN be viewed horribly patronising and undermining.

As a male here it is much more ffective to ask "really? Is that that your best way to behave?"

Anger and frustration at this shit is a sort of given. The best way isn't always the immediate.ifswim.

The issue I have with expecting men to call out other mens' behaviour if they're behaving in a sexist way towards a woman (and yes it can depend on the situation), is that it can arguably be seen as the man determining that the woman 'needs rescuing' from a situation that the man has decided is sexist, and an assumption that the woman can't deal with it herself.

@Bluescreen thank you for the term 'miming human'.

for you, MonsoonMama, because this is really shit, isn't it - and apologies if that didn't come across in my earlier post. It's horrible when we can't tell who's trustworthy.
Some (I hope most) men are genuinely decent human beings. But some know how to mime 'human' in company, and some blokes do it really well. It's not just blokes, though: geeks, nerds, jocks and right on left wing men can all conceal appalling misogynists and homophobes in their midst. It's horrible when it could be anyone.

Good men need to call this shit out when they see it. It's never 'routine for rugby', 'normal for netball'...

MonsoonMama
A kick ass attitude is the way to go. Fannying about will get us nowhere.

So it seems your a bit self-delusional, rather than "all men are bastards" ???

You forgot to say "not all women are like that* It sounds like you think all women are delusional because you didn't say that.

no idea who the second one is which is quite a worry, and not sure how to find out..?!

Apologies for making light of it, but it really rocks you back, doesn't it. Could be anyone. They don't always have 'dick' stapled to their foreheads.

monsoon there are a lot of MRA trolls hanging out here, just bear that in mind if replies are upsetting you

So what are you thinking about these blokes OP are you going to let on that you know? I think I'd be pointing every woman I know to look at their accounts.

I have come across guys who will tie themselves to trees in the face of bulldozers, but have had a grand old time at festivals groping and raping drugged up women.

Ah, the "woke" lefty misogynistbro. Bane of my fucking existence (and probably yours too, if you've spent any time in leftist or activist spaces). Perfectly exemplified by PETAs "save the cows, exploit a woman instead" advertising.

Lana's 14.59 post nails it.

@LanaKanesTerfyVagina

Yep.
At the ripe old age of 55 I've met every version of man going.
Started by growing up with three brothers.
Joined the Royal Navy at 19 in 1981, eyes opened so wide they can never be closed.
30 years in the City in Investment Banking. Holy shit, what money buys for these men. I mean I've been in sex clubs in Moscow on business with them, just relaxing after work you know.

Boundaries. We need them.

Lana YY.

Ooops, missed a bit!

Fuck knows why I put up with it, but I certain...ly don't any more.

I have lost many male friends of decades recently, cos I started calling them out on their shit.

But do you know what??

It's their fucking loss.

I won't subdue my opinions to please a man, ever, ever again.

Signed,

An angry RadFem.

I'm pleased so many have read this and agreed with me!

It fucking is depressing, isn't it?

I spent years putting up with misogyny from lefty blokes, cos how could a bloke who stops foxes from being hurt, possibly deliberatley hurt/rape a woman??
It's weirdly disorientating being raped and abused by a guy who protects foxes and badgers at risk to his physical safety, but will happily punch an uppity woman in the face.

I have come across guys who will tie themselves to trees in the face of bulldozers, but have had a grand old time at festivals groping and raping drugged up women.

This is why "NAMALT" is so fucking disgusting to me.

How many times in high profile family annihilation cases have we heard "but he was such a pillar of the community/a good churchgoer/ a decent man"

Men do not come with I AM AN ABUSIVE FUCKWEASEL stamped n their forehead. And their supposed liberal politics does not make up for the fact that underneath, they still view women as decorative fuckholes, even if they love the pretty foxes.

Fuck knows why I put up with it, but I certain

Eewww that's grim op
I agree with Lana. So many men think misogyny is normal. Totally depressing.

Those are the self described "nice guys" that rarely turn out to meet minimum standards of decent human being. I am sorry these two got through your screening, but also too and besides I am glad for you that it is only two.

"Not all men, but yes all women"

Ie, not all men are harassers, but enough of them that yes pretty much all women have been harassed, or sexually assaulted in some way.

Exactly. Maybe not all men, but at least one man everywhere women go.

"Not all men, but yes all women"

Ie, not all men are harassers, but enough of them that yes pretty much all women have been harassed, or sexually assaulted in some way. The men who're going to do so don't wear badges to identify themselves. So if your (male) knee is jerking and you just can't wait to tell some woman that she's a bigot because not all men! Then that says something interesting about where your sympathies lie and what your priorities are.

I'm not surprised. Think of all the women reporting harassment/rape/assault, not to mention the lower level crap like cat calling and dick pics...stands to reason most men are doing it. Even the ones who seem decent. And the ones who scream "not all men" the loudest are usually the ones doing it the most ime.

Oh wow that's really unsettling.

I suppose lots of people have hidden views about things that others might find unpalatable or just weird or extreme... It's still a shock when you find this stuff out about people you know though.

I think with the sexism / misogyny thing a lot of men know what to say / not to say in front of women, but it's not how they feel. This is quite insidious - at work with the blokes I think it's all good and then one will accidentally slip up and show what he really thinks.. it's pushed it underground a bit. Insidious. This is why so many men say you "can't say anything any more" and "oh so I can't talk to women then" and "it's illegal to flirt" and all the rest of it, as they genuinely have to actively think about what they are saying and doing and as they don't really believe there is an issue they can't see where the line is...

Very depressing.