"Not All Men"

Magical thinking is definitely part of it. If I just do all the right things, carry a lucky charm, and chant the correct incantations every day it won't happen to me, the woman thinks.

She's wrong, but maybe it makes her feel better.

Oh well done MNHQ!

The women who said that, maybe she's just a bit dim (?) - however a lot of women engage in "magical thinking" - which often has the result of victim blaming. They tell themselves that "it wouldn't happen to them" as they would/ wouldn't do XYZ.

Of course it's rubbish as sadly the only constant in rape is the presence of a rapist, and it's down to luck whether he comes across your path and whether or not it's in a situation where he can attack you.

Most women cannot fight off most men. Is she including children in this? What about a 7.5 stone teen vs a 15 stone rugby player?

Maybe she is a nasty piece of work, more likely she is lying to herself, the truth (it's all down to luck) is way too scary.

Exactly Angry. My jaw drops at such stupidity.

Such as the female colleague who said women can't be raped if he doesn't have a weapon, as then they could fight him off.

Great, so if a man a foot taller than me attacks me then I'll just ask him to hang on a minute while I go find a chair to stand on so when I'm fighting back I can reach higher than his mid chest?

I thought my DH was a nice man. He calls himself a feminist. I have finally had to realise that he behaves like an old fashioned partriarch, who makes all the decisions, no matter how detrimental to me, and always has a reason why my views and opinions can be discounted.

I thought my friend was a nice man and feminist. Then he congratulated himself on not 'making his wife pay all the childcare costs'.

I thought another friend was a nice lefty empathetic man. Then he complained about women crossing the street at night if they saw him and how that insulted him and they shouldn't do that.

I thought another friend was a nice man then he described a tv character, who repeatedly cheats on his wife, leaves her alone to look after their autistic child, and brings danger to her home by mixing with criminals and gangsters, as a 'good husband'.

It is depressing really.. Mind you, plenty of woman have dodgy opinions too. Such as the female colleague who said women can't be raped if he doesn't have a weapon, as then they could fight him off.

#TGLWGH

Yeah

What angry said (better)

People aren't asking that men "rescue" women, they're asking that men challenge their friends on sexist talk, particularly when it's of a sexually questionable nature. So, less swooping in to sweep the damsel in distress up in your manly arms, more pulling up your mate Steve when he makes a joke about shagging a woman who's passed out drunk.

Absolutely agree with OP. There came a point in my life when I really wished I was lesbian :(

is that it can arguably be seen as the man determining that the woman 'needs rescuing' from a situation that the man has decided is sexist, and an assumption that the woman can't deal with it herself.

Sorry for lowering the tone of the thread, but I did get a belly laugh a few nights ago, watching Jack Dee. He made a 'women have no sense of direction' type joke (obviously as a set-up for a plant to boo) and some man booed, he said "that's what I call a blow-job boo". Well...it was funny when he told it.

Although i was referring more to comments between freinds or on social media

Not so much in a live action situation

So if during coffee a friend makes a racist remark I definitely pull her up on it...if it was a group of strangers in a coffe shop it would probably be a different approach as you say...depending on this situation

Thank you aristaeus

there are a lot of MRA trolls hanging out here, just bear that in mind if replies are upsetting you

Yep. I've said it several times before, I used to be a mod on a popular general discussion forum, and it was very interesting to see how often an email address with a male name in it accompanied a female username. Many of them seemed to enjoy gaslighting posts by women, especially anything in reference to men. I can only assume they thought they were providing some kind of service to their fellow men by telling their partners to accept bad/abusive behaviour... I suspect a lot of them may hang around AIBU given how often the first few responses to threads are often unhelpful and rude.

And Lana

Nail on fucking head.

What is MRA

What they think they are: A group of men who fight for men's rights because women have everything on a plate.

What they actually are: A bunch of violently angry men who hate women far more than they like any men and who believe that activism is screaming at women online about how no one cares about men's issues while doing precisely nothing to help men facing those issues. The crossover between MRAs and rape apologists and neo-nazis is strong.

Rufus, re the rescuing comment I made, I did say it depends on the situation. If I see a guy in a busy bar being a sexist pig towards a woman, unwanted chatting up or whatever, perhaps she doesn't want to make a scene or have the situation escalated, or maybe she feels able to deal with it herself. It's pretty patronising for a man to assume that the woman needs or wants a man to butt in and get involved.

Like I say, each situation is different and if it's clear that the woman is scared or is looking round for help, then clearly that is different.

If I'm in a conversation down the pub with my mates and one says something sexist to me then my DH won't step in to put the bloke down and rescue me. He knows I will do that perfectly well myself. I would be annoyed if he stepped in denying me the opportunity. He would back me up (as would others usually).

If the remark were directed at another woman he would hesitate to see what she would do and also wondering whether he would piss her off by intervening. By the time he makes a decision the moment may have passed. I can see how it is difficult for nice men.

I don't understand the rescuing comments

So for example a male has a male friend who posts sexist memes on facebook or rape jokes or something

And said male is afraid to call his friend out in case a woman gets annoyed and thinks they are 'rescuing' women

Is that right...

So nothing to do with him not wanting to annoy his friend...just he is worrying about annoying a random woman

Or is it more in a conversation with a woman?

What is MRA.

This thread reminded me of a thread I saw on reddit recently. The op 'saves' a teenage girl from a creepy man in the swimwear section of a shop. Thought it might be good to share.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/88oobr/ididdthereddittthingtodayysavedaayoung_girl/?st=JFPHLT77&sh=1cec067d

I'm kinda new here but want to jump in. I don't see it as "rescuing" for men to help out. We need as many voices on our side as we can get and there aren't enough. And I agree that as long as men are silent about sexism, they can't complain when women start to see all men the same way.

I would challenge sexist behaviour from men, not because I think the woman needs rescuing but because the behaviour is wrong, disgusting and deserves to be called out by everyone who witnesses it. In fact I have called it out - the man was reduced to tears!! 😮😮😮 I definitely didn't expect that!

I would prefer calling out to happen when it's just men. I suspect (although don't know obviously) that's when a lot of laddish behaviour happens and it dismissed as "banter".
I know many men just avoid those convos but it would be good if they could challenge rather than keep quiet.

I've been in situations where it would have been great to have a bloke step in. They don't though - usually.

I find that when men are out of order I get very tongue tied, my voice goes kind of high and squeaky and I struggle to articulate what is a problem. And when I try it comes across as being very high pitched and whiny and emotional.

Having other women step in as well would also be awesome.

But the not stepping in ranges from a man saying something crass to being really agressive and even to assaulting you - we seem to see this (as a society) as the individual woman's problem that she should deal with herself. I don't know why that is. It starts so young as well - we learn that it's "our problem" from so young.

I know there are women who are able to remain calm and deal with stuff but we're not all like that!