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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

WEP - Sophie Walker on Twitter - what's going on?

57 replies

BlueSkyandSunshineToday · 05/04/2018 19:49

SW has come under fire from TRAs and is fighting her corner on Twitter. I've not seen the full thread or the retweet that has sent the TRAs into a spin - can anyone linky? Thanks

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 05/04/2018 22:35

@Winewinewinegin What is this new line in the comments about HF's article being incorrect under law? Someone is saying the article is wrong because it is confusing the GRA reform with freedoms given in the EA2012. What does this mean? Is it accurate?

(There are far more knowledgeable people on here- please correct me if I misspeak).

The article conflates the proposed changes to the GRA and the existing EA, because they need to be seen together. The EA makes gender reassignment a protected characteristic.

If an amended GRA makes assigning your gender something that anyone can do by filling in a form then I (a man) could fill in said form, probably wait a month or so, then wander into my local female only gym and sit in the changing room watching the boobies go by. If the gym objected, I could use the EA to force their compliance. Imagine how risky this gets when you start talking about prisons and refuges.

I should point out that organisations can still treat sex and gender differently under the EA, but they don't; someone with a driving licence that says they are female will, in practice, always be treated as a woman. Some feminists oppose even this, but with the present medical diagnosis being required for a GRC the safeguards are much better than under the proposed changes.

The potential problems with the proposed GRA are much broader than my silly and reductive example makes out- if biological women don't exist as a class, recognised by the government, then systems which errode sexism (albeit too slowly) don't work properly anymore- but you get the gist.

Cwenthryth · 05/04/2018 22:25

Looks like Sophie Walker is aiming to have genuine, open, offline debate about it within the party.

There is a working group being set up, Sophie dropped this into an online members web chat last week.

R0wantrees · 05/04/2018 22:23

it really is worth looking at more deeply...

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 05/04/2018 22:14

Don't think so Ro.

Perhaps the odd tweet but usually zero retweets and a few likes and responses from the followers

An irrelevance

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 05/04/2018 22:12

I thought the Giuliana was a parody?

R0wantrees · 05/04/2018 22:11

quite a lot of people with considerable influence have retweeted...

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 05/04/2018 22:10

Really? Goolieana is in an echochamber with mmmmmy.

Leave them to it

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 05/04/2018 22:07

Yeah, the Giuliana twitter account is absolutely batshit.

R0wantrees · 05/04/2018 21:56

I really do believe at some point someone is going to expose Giuliana twitter account... there will be a lot of people who have retweeted with some serious credibility questions to answer

Ereshkigal · 05/04/2018 21:56

Perhaps because Toni was operating to this strategy as described by Giuliana:

twitter.com/Giuliana_London/status/970107141901225984?s=20

But as you say, why is just one person being allowed to control the narrative? I suspect that's more about the handmaidens in this case.

ReluctantCamper · 05/04/2018 21:49

yeah, just took a peek at Toni's twitter timeline.

Toni retweets a lot of nonsense from that nutter Giuliana

Toni has 428 twitter followers

Toni gets likes for their posts in single figures where they get likes at all

Toni is not influencing anyone outside Toni's mad bubble

Why is WEP letting Toni drive any narrative at all?

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 05/04/2018 21:43

Am I the only one fervently hoping that Toni has a full on, narcissistic rage melt down?

Nope, I'm right with you.

Wasn’t it Toni who broke confidentiality about Heather’s case?

Yes.

He's been completely dictating the trans-narrative of the WEP through fear, making sure trans is front and centre of everything, which has been massively to the detriment of the party, and he's starting to lose it now because people are starting to think for themselves.

Ereshkigal · 05/04/2018 21:16

Personality disorders r us .

Elephant meet room.

Ereshkigal · 05/04/2018 21:16

They're all so self important. And one of them has repeatedly posted that asinine @binarythis tweet thread discussed here on the "a woman's place is supporting her trans colleagues" thread. Why on earth is she so impressed with such irritating sanctimonious nonsense? I bet she'll tweet the clownfish post to SW next.

GenderApostate · 05/04/2018 21:13

Am I the only one fervently hoping that Toni has a full on, narcissistic rage melt down?

Wasn’t it Toni who broke confidentiality about Heather’s case?
Is there a production line / cloning lab somewhere that churns them out? Personality disorders r us .

ReluctantCamper · 05/04/2018 21:10

Hadley's article 'problematic media' according to one particularly self important poster.

The way these people speak...!

CATTamongthepigeons · 05/04/2018 21:05

She directly quoted “women & transwomen”

Not a cis in sight!

Good for Hadley in the first instance, and to Sophie for not pandering. Or perhaps not even noticing, as I failed to when I read Hadley’s piece.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 05/04/2018 21:02

I don't think Sophie will stick her neck out far on this, but I do at least feel it's a more genuine attempt to hear the feminist side than either Stella Creasey, Dawn Butler, or anyone else has done so far.

That Toni man imploding is quite hilarious. He is a class-A bellend.

Winewinewinegin · 05/04/2018 21:00

I do agree about Heather. That was shocking and cowardly. I stand with Heather 100% on that.

At the same time, anything with a chance of getting people to discuss issues offline and raise awareness has to be a good thing. Those tweets are moving the debate forward and setting some norms and boundaries around language and terms.

It all helps.

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 05/04/2018 20:53

I hope this becomes some kind of policy change in their party.

Winewinewinegin · 05/04/2018 20:52

Great that WEP are discussing this. Looks like Sophie Walker is aiming to have genuine, open, offline debate about it within the party.

What is this new line in the comments about HF's article being incorrect under law? Someone is saying the article is wrong because it is confusing the GRA reform with freedoms given in the EA2012. What does this mean? Is it accurate?

Datun · 05/04/2018 20:51

ReluctantCamper

I was just about to post the same comment.

It's all kinds of nonsense.

Hulo · 05/04/2018 20:51

Good.

As the party which is meant to represent women, by sitting out of the debate and refusing to engage, they were abdicating responsibility and not playing a role they really should have. At the very least they should have provided a meeting ground.

It's very hopeful if this is changing.

GenderApostate · 05/04/2018 20:50

Toni Harrison’s not happy 🤣 , fancy demanding on twitter that the leader of your party contacts you , such self importance.

ReluctantCamper · 05/04/2018 20:47

But...if it's all so complicated and nuanced and we should all get along and women's rights matter, what the fuck were they thinking with the way they treated Heather Brunskell-Evans?

This is about votes isn't it? Sophie thinks there's more votes to be had from gender critical women than transwomen (she's right by the way).

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