I think this 'gender equality' move is bonkers (NB: not trans)

Can't resist another couple of comments from the Times:

"I strongly suggest that, in an ongoing effort to make all 'gender-neutral', that Mr. Goodman change his name to Mr. Goodperson."

And one great woman has managed to introduce self ID:
"I am a total feminist. As hard line as you like. But this is wrong headed.
Male voice choirs are a musical genre and they should be allowed to stay as they are. Also, women are continually (and rightly in my view) arguing for space without men. Let men have some spaces without women. We need to talk about what spaces are appropriate for 'men-only' or 'women only', but for me, a male voice choir would be one of them.
I hope the men point out there is the 'Military Wives Choir'....."

A bit more background here. Not going down well with the locals and support also from female choirs:

www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/derbyshire-constabulary-male-voice-choir-1418330

www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/female-choir-slams-derbyshire-police-1419205

Most irritatingly, the choir isn't even dead set on remaining male only- it's just not practical to make the existing group mixed:

Mr Griffiths, who also sings in a mixed choir, said members had considered it impossible to take on women as it would take years to find the balance. “We have 30 males and their voices are stronger because they’re bass and baritone. To get the right balance we’d need 50 females. That would probably take 10 to 15 years. We’d also need a complete library of new music. We offered to start a ladies’ choir who we could invite to perform at our events. But it was not an option for Mr Goodman.”

5-10 years ago, I would have snobbily assumed that the mail was merely misrepresenting a decision made for other reasons. I used to think the stories of 'political correctness gone mad' were always exaggerated nonsense (which they often are). I thought that nobody could be as stupid as the tabloids make out.

Unfortunately experience has taught me that there are some people who are determined to push their personal values, however laudable, at the expense of the rights of others and of common sense. Too many of these imbeciles are on 'my' side of the political spectrum- they do not help.

There is a more detailed account from the choirmaster here. A quote from the chief constable:

We need to represent our communities in every aspect of our public presence. Having a male voice choir representing the organisation is incompatible with this

He is, of course, within his rights to ask for the choir to dissociate from the police- apparently, they don't have any serving officers left. He's still a fuckwit for doing it.

The Times reports this clearly about the Chief Constable insisting that the choir accept women:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/derbyshire-constabulary-male-voice-choir-is-told-it-must-let-women-join-70mr0zb9f?shareToken=e414ef85397e34987219f660ad9dad30

(I also get into arguments with people who say that women shouldn't be allowed to sing Renaissance music because they wouldn't have been allowed to do it back then. I mean, honestly.)

I do like the idea of 50% of the choir identifying as female for a couple of hours every Monday evening.

Ridiculous.

re the civilian thing - is it possible many/some of the members are Special Constables?

Because if so, I think there is a genuine link between the police force and the choir. Special Constables wear police uniform and carry out the role of a police officer when on duty, but on a part time voluntary basis.

If there is no real link then I suppose it is reasonable to disassociate the group from the police - not for reasons of "gender equality" though!

Hey, be warned, this is the Mail, you know. I'm prepared to bet there are other aspects to it.
In 27 years of singing in choirs the constant problem I've seen is that recruiting men is harder than recruiting women. I don't know why. (Discuss.) I wouldn't attempt to run a male voice choir except in an exclusively male environment where you haven't got a choice, just because otherwise you're making life really hard for yourself.

I know nothing about singing. But isn't this all about how deep men can sing, as opposed to women?

I agree, it's nonsense. No feminist would give two hoots.

One of the first comments was very interesting though. Along the lines of how come it only goes one way? Why not 'inclusion' in rape refuges?

The general public have no idea.

Nooooooo. male voice choirs are absolutely wonderful. It will be a loss to music if they are not allowed to happen. Glad they are keeping going and I hope they find somewhere to practise.

However, I think, if it were still made up of serving police officers the force would have had to look at the balance of male to female officers in their force before buggering about with a choir, if that is not equal how could they expect the choir to have an equal balance of male to female officers if the pool they are recruiting from is not equal.

"Mr Goodman should definitely think again and form a Ladies' Choir.
Don't know what he would call them - the Clitoris Chorale possibly?"

"However, I note that women are still not accepted as sperm donors. Work remains to be done to bring about an equal society."

The comments under the Times article

"How to respect the judgement of Peter Goodman? Is he intellectually capable of running a bath, let alone a police force?"

"However, I note that women are still not accepted as sperm donors. Work remains to be done to bring about an equal society."

A lot of work places had their own brass bands/choirs etc. They usually had a lot of workers in one place. It is good for teamwork. These days, numbers are cut, recruitment is cut, and headquarters moved and rationalised so it probably included retired policemen who used to have to retire early and move onto other jobs, then their relatives and friends, then anyone else to keep the numbers up.

Telling them to change to 50% women is a massive interference in the musical direction of the choir and I cannot see any musical director being happy to take that lying down.

The Times is clear that the Chief Constable told the choir to accept women or face losing its 60-year association with the police service.
So it does seem to be as bat shit as the Mail suggested.

Managers, public and private sector, presumably have to go through anti-(whatever)ism training. That's where this madness stems from, and why they all seem to be singing from the same (mixed voice) songsheet.

Maybe there is a bit more to this? According to the article the choir is not made up of police officers - it is entirely civilian.

I heard on the news this morning that the Derbyshire police have the worst pay gap record.

Perhaps this is their way of putting that right

Sorry, that was their quote not mine (gosh, I wish there was an edit button)

Utterly, utterly ridiculous, the world really is going mad. However it occurs to me that the obvious response would be for one or more of the current members to immediately self-identify as female - and then see what the idiot Chief Constable has to say.

The message might be getting through.....

This is one of the lead stories in The Times today and the comments are as scathing as on here

This one in particular made me laugh #ManFriday

^Utterly, utterly ridiculous, the world really is going mad.

However it occurs to me that the obvious response would be for one or more of the current members to immediately self-identify as female - and then see what the idiot Chief Constable has to say.

I wonder if the Mail is bending the facts here for the sake of a clickbait headline.

Almost certainly

Well, frankly, if the members of the choir are not members of the Derbyshire Constabulary, why should the choir be named to imply that they are? And apparently they wear police uniform tunics when they perform in public, which I am surprised was allowed.

Indeed

I wonder if the Mail is bending the facts here for the sake of a clickbait headline.

The choir is called "The Derbyshire Constabulary Male Voice Choir". The Mail story states that "From June onwards the choir, which is made up of civilians, will change its name to the Derbyshire Community Male Voice Choir." Well, frankly, if the members of the choir are not members of the Derbyshire Constabulary, why should the choir be named to imply that they are? And apparently they wear police uniform tunics when they perform in public, which I am surprised was allowed.

I suspect that when the choir was created it was all police officers, but over time there weren't enough singers so they recruited from outside, and now none of the choristers are policemen. And it's time to update the name to reflect that.

But the choir isn't made up of police officers, they are civilians.