Ulster Rugby trial -continued

Has anyone read Louise O' Neill's book Asking For It as mentioned in the New York Times article ?

@Annwitnoe

No mask! Fair enough, that remark was inappropriately directed to you in this case & thank you for your detailed explanation.

Whilst I'm still saddened to hear of your complete lack of trust in the criminal justice system, I respect that you have a right to a different opinion & to campaign for changes therein. No society stands still after all & nor should it.

My issue is that if we can't respect the justice system, then what have we got? Why even bother with court cases if we just assume guilt the moment an accusation is made?

In that case, I'm afraid all we do have is lynch mobs etc, which you are also against. It's a slippery slope as soon as society decides to adjudicate on the law themselves in my opinion.

By the way, on consent being a 2-way street, I obviously meant that both parties will need to be equally sure of their ground on this issue. (albeit under the UK definition of sexual assault & not rape if the defendant happens to be female, as alluded to by TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross above)

Perfectly put Zibbaddo...

I’m very disappointed that The NY Times shied away from reporting the actual wording of the WhatsApp messages.

Article from the New York Times www.nytimes.com/2018/04/15/world/europe/ireland-rugby-paddy-jackson-stuart-olding.html

What mask?

I’ve stated my bias clearly, and I’ve tried to convey that it troubles me. I don’t have faith in the current system to deliver justice either to innocent rape victims, or innocent wrongly-accused men.

Can you explain what you mean about consent being a two way street?

In terms of female defendants? That’s a thought provoking question. Where there is an obvious power imbalance, my instinct is to believe the person with less power. So if a women is accused of molesting a child or teen, I have an inclination to believe the victim.

Among adults, I don’t think my bias towards believing a male victim would be as strong. And I think that’s probably rooted in social and cultural power dynamics.

I’m well aware I wouldn’t be a good candidate for a jury in cases like this, and I’m not inclined towards lynch mobs. But pushing for changes in the system is something I feel strongly about.

I would very much like to have faith in the criminal justice system and as a citizen I think engaging with politicians both in opposition and government and expressing my concerns is a responsible thing to do. I live in a progressive democracy where I can speak out against injustice as I perceive it.

I’m not wearing a mask, except in so far as I will not specify the personal, professional and social experience that has contributed to my bias. But like anyone, my views are rooted in my life experiences. I don’t honestly know how to be clearer than this.

Given that under current UK law, rape can only be committed by a person with a penis, you are unlikely to find a rape case in this country where a biological female is the sole defendant in the dock

@Annwithnoe

"Personally I do assume that if a rape case gets to court the defendant is probably guilty regardless of the outcome"

What a truly bizarre, backwards, and if i may so - odious - statement

You might want to adjust your mask as it has rather slipped!

Can you re-assure us that you will shout the same principle so boldly if it happens to be a female defendant in the dock?

After all, you do realise consent is a 2-way street don't you??

Delighted to see that both clubs have distanced themselves from the two of them. Might make them stop to think and reflect on their terrible behaviour and attitude towards women

English clubs not interested either
www.joe.ie/sport/english-club-denies-interest-signing-stuart-olding-622727

WTAF BelTel? That article is an absolute load of toss. Mind you the paper has form for bad journalism. In the not too distant past they published an article lambasting midwifery/obstetrics in NI citing some statistic about the number of stillbirths/infant deaths in the immediate postnatal period as compared with the rest of the UK. Near the end of the article they did include a midwife's comment in quotation marks part of which pointed out that abortion even in cases of fatal foetal abnormality is illegal here. That was it. No further discussion of her comment or attempt to guage how much of the differential was due to the fact that abortion for FFA is legal elsewhere. Zero. Zip. Nada. It was the most embarrassingly bad attempt at reporting a piece of science that I have ever seen.

I would hate to see anyone signing him up.

Clermont are now denying any interest in Jackson.

Bananabat-that podcast sounds good, will look it out. The stats from sex workers in the porn industry are really depressing-can't remember exactly but lots of PTSD & suicide/attempted suicide after leaving it. Education around porn in school would be a good start. I think it's gone past the stage where a type of fair trade porn would work but there needs to be something done-is it broached at all in schools currently?

The Cork school news is horrific. Sadly a lot of the community were annoyed about it becoming mainstream news as worried for their daughter on 'the list'

I broke up with the Belfast Telegraph a couple of weeks ago. They showed their true despicable colours through this case. The fact that the journalism is pants is in no way surprising either.

This is an interesting article from the BBC suggesting that the pair might not play for Ireland again.

Thanks Ann I also felt sad when I read how the "complainant" had looked for the Rape crisis centre but found it had closed. The sexual health clinic helped her - good on them but she still had to travel quite a way in at taxi (of her own bat) to a specialist centre to have the evidence taken (and was examined by a male doctor there).

We need to do so, so much better.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/after-the-belfast-rape-trial-the-city-needs-its-rape-crisis-centre-back-1.3460804?mode=amp

the beltel article doesn’t go anywhere because it dropped the last two paragraphs of the same article that was printed on independent.ie two weeks ago. Couldn’t even dredge up anything new to say.

Annwithnoe thanks for your post and links. Lots to think about.

The more I read about Paddy Jackson, even the stuff that is meant to paint him in a good light, the more loathsome he sounds to me.

Absolutely agree. When someone is described as a joker, I visualise this.

I was reading it waiting for the point - but there was no point...