Ulster Rugby trial -continued

Thankyou chaos and totally that makes sense although I find it really depressing. Bumble I was coming at it from what I understand about child development and central to this is that abuse and neglect can have an effect on empathy development.

I wonder how their team mates feel about them?
Surely there are non misogynistic players on the Irish and Ulster squads.

There is no evidence that men who commit rape and sexual abuse are more likely to have suffered abuse themselves. In fact I think they probably came from normal healthy families who have probably not committed any other crime accept rape because to them what they are doing is not a crime.
This view reinforced by society when they see very few men convicted of their type of behaviour and women constantly blamed for complaining about their behaviour.
When they see families of accused men stand up for them but the families of women abused blame them. That is the very definition of rape culture.

Chaos I do see your point but I am troubled how anyone can behave in such a warped way and have experienced a normal childhood and relationships. If they had how could they have such non existent empathy?

One of the least pleasant manifestations of misogyny - not adequately challenged in their families, peer group, role models, education etc. I would like to think my DC could never behave like this.
I understand looking for something more, it's not nice.

Seriously Bella, you can't see how it's simply a case of their own arrogance & mysoginistic outlook??

Chaos I do see your point but I am troubled how anyone can behave in such a warped way and have experienced a normal childhood and relationships. If they had how could they have such non existent empathy?

how else could their behavior possibly be explainEd?*

zibbidoo I am really sorry if I have offended you but how else could their behavior possibly be explained?

Easily. They mistreat women because 1) they want to and 2) they can

Men who commit violent sexual crimes have some kind of trauma, abuse, neglect from childhood so perhaps the parents feel guilty and hopefully are doing a bit of soul searching.

I think this assertion is wrong. The link between being a victim and going on to commit the same kind of crime is terribly stigmatising for victims and as far as I am aware data is questionable. Many who commit crimes claim to have been abused as mitigation. Some have some haven't. I also think despite the victim in this case having my full sympathy, saying things like this is not fair on the accused's family. (Although of course I expect they have some soul searching to do about his values/behaviour.)

I can’t wait for Monday. Either they will release the information or they won’t, but either way it will restoke the righteous fire in people’s bellies and keep the momentum up to demand change.

Chaosandchocolate I was told by someone much more clever than me that she had to handle it that way, as to do otherwise would potentially have gotten a guilty verdict but opened the case up to be eligible for an appeal.

I can say without hesitation I would be by my son's side if he had been involved. And if he had been found guilty. Of course I would devastated. But I'd be there.

Cuts to the legal aid budget have meant that there is a widening gulf between representation if funded by legal aid and if wealthy enough to pay your own lawyers. It would be a disservice to suggest legal aid funded lawyers aren't good but capped fees etc have had an impact.

I agree defense barristers are ethically bound to do their best. What I wonder is, did the judge do everything she should in terms of managing the case, eg allowing underwear to be shown, rape myths bandied around. That where the problem lies for me. If she was managing it as she should (and I haven't seen suggestions other) then i think those guidelines need to be revisited.

Well you should do buster, because the nature of being a criminal lawyer is that some of your clients won't be very nice. This is a better way of doing things than any of the possible alternatives.

And yes, the barrister can have feelings about things in his own time. When he's working he holds his nose and behaves like a professional.

Yes, everyone is entitled to a defence and defence barristers have to do the job to the best of their abilities.

It doesn’t mean that they are complicit in whatever crime their client is alleged to have committed.

I do think it’s easy to get caught up in provocative nuggets of information like that.

Barristers are not really paid to have an opinion. They are bound by ethics to defend their client to the full extent of their capabilities. To do otherwise would be malpractice and would see them very quickly out of a job.

Didn’t PJ’s lawyer also represent the killer of April Jones? Couldn’t get over that.

“If you have been found not guilty of a crime why should you pay for your defence ?”

Arguably the quality of representation helps determine the outcome of the trial. The OJ Simpson case springs to mind. Would he have been found not guilty if he had been dependent on a state funded defence? Would Jackson have been found not guilty if he’d been reliant on a legal aid solicitor/barrister?

Arguably SO and the other defendants also benefited by association from PJ highly experienced representatives in court. While they may have only been questioning on behalf of PJ, the jury is unlikely to have viewed their strategy as independent of the other defendants representatives.

Powershower
I think it's because we know how influential mothers are in rearing their children in the majority of children's lives.

If you have been found not guilty of a crime why should you pay for your defence ?

Is free legal aid means tested in the North ?

Badger, that book occurred to me too when reading the blaming online. It seemed an even split between "parents" and "mother". I didn't see a single "who could bring up a boy to have that attitude" comment that mentioned his father alone.