Ulster Rugby trial -continued

It is true. They can't confirm it officially just yet as they have legal things to tie up, but it's breaking news on all the local Facebook news pages.

Winter it's not confirmed yet but I really hope it's true. I feel sorry for the next club that gets them

Ulster rugby have dropped them. I'm not convinced either way over their guilt or innocence, but given their general behaviour and horrid messages, Ulster rugby have made the right decision. Although I don't think they had much of a choice given the uproar here over the whole thing.

PowerShare if only the reporter could have said to the woman your lucky that some man didn't force their dick into you. But of course that could be seen as defamation.
Our defamation laws prevent any balanced and fair debate on why there so few rape convictions because to do so effectively you need to use real life examples. Anti rape campaigns cannot do this without getting sued. Where as people who believe there are many false allegations can use whatever examples they like.
Our defamation laws stifle robust and honest debate

I'm down home lambing ewes for the weekend so couldn't go this evening but just watched the local news which covered the protests. Well done everyone, the posters looked good and all v dignified and clear. Had to have a bitter laugh one of the rugby fans interviewed on the way in who said that she didn't like having other people opinions forced on her. Oh the irony. If the only thing ever forced on her was an opinion (by some people peacefully holding up a few banners) then lucky her.

I know, ANameforToday it's such a saddening realisation.

GrainneWail that story is shocking. The more I read, the more I see just how little value girls and women have in the eyes of men and society.

Treacle I just checked out the Belfast Telegraph Facebook page and have struggled not to cry...partly due to shame, partly sadness and partly frustration. I am from N Ireland (I moved away once I was 18 but parents are there so it is still very much home), and I thought it was moving forward but I see nothing has changed and I was right to leave. It is attitudes like those from the people commenting on that page that will ensure I am never moving back. I am just so so angry and ashamed...

I'm watching the Scrum V coverage of the Ulster v Ospreys match and in the half time chat they touched on the case and mentioned the protest outside the stadium and then briefly showed the banners of the protesters. I was surprised they mentioned it at all.

The Belfast telegraph Facebook page is a damning insight into the minds of N Ireland. They covered the protest at Kingspan (which was unfortunately very small) and there are about 600 comments after the report. About ten of them are supportive. There are several hundred posts pointing out how ugly the protesters are, how they should just shut up, why are they not protesting about X or Y or Z etc. I actually looked at my beautiful daughter earlier and felt like crying at how much hate she will have to face.

NotTaken - they probably will not be able to use list. Defence will argue something like it was childish prank and should not be put before jury to stop bias against accused.
If a woman made a list of men she would like to falsely accuse, that list will mean the case would never even get to court.
Girls being made to feel more ashamed than boys that just rape culture

GrainneWail That’s an upsetting article. From what I have learned on this thread, I assume the list wouldn’t be admissible as evidence if someone on the list was to report a rape by a boy in that school?

Imagine, the girls on the list are ashamed for being on the list. Why is every boy who used those toilets and seen that list and didn’t whistle blow not hanging their heads in shame!?

Bumble - that's o.k too hope you feel better

Bumble - think you would feel better if you went. You would be with many people who believe as you do.
I would go but no where near the area

You know I think rather than having a lesser charge or not proven maybe the word 'rape' should be removed?

Assault with penis maybe, with the same penalties.

Also, and I don't think this could be done with English/UK law there should be two juries, one for a criminal case and one for a civil case, or possibly a second judge for a civil case finding on the balance of probabilities.

And we don't live in a rape culture...

Cork school

“I can't believe they were allowed to discuss her previous sexual history. ”

I don’t believe they were

I’m open to correction as I may have missed it

Not taken - if you mean the judge siding with defence because they have more appeal rights and are more likely to to use them than I am afraid it applies to all cases but the sense of unfairness is made worse in rape cases because defence is often allowed to use the flimsiest of things to attack character of complainants like a previous type of sex she has had even though you may look at that in its own and think that was just part of a normal sexual relationship.
Prosecution cannot introduce his previous sexual history even if sexual acts are similar just because it was consensual or even as previous posters have said when they have evidence of non sexual acts such previous convictions.
It seems judges are doing every they can to bend over backwards to ensure a not guilty verdict

Also to anyone going down to Kingspan this evening... I’m nervous about going in case t gets rowdy. Am I being silly?

Totallymyownperson I’ve heard a lot about not wanting defence to appeal in this case. Is that a common thing throughout, or specifically in cases of this nature.

Not taken - it's easier for the defence to introduce prejudicial evidence because judges decisions on admissibility of evidence can be overturned on appeal. Prosecution in UK just don't have the same right of appeal. Judges don't like being overturned on appeal. Siding with the defence is works out better for the judge.
And yes having a society full of misogyny along with a jury system where decisions by it does not need to be explained and the decision making process - jury deliberations are secret makes it easier to acquit based rape myths

"There's a balancing act in what we look for from the justice system when a crime is committed...justice, a "sense" of justice for the victim, keeping the public safe, eg, custody, reducing offending/reoffending, rehabilitation.... ultimately fewer victims. Currently we fail on all of these"

I agree with all of your post Chaosandchocolate but particularly this last paragraph.

Our adversarial justice system does not work well for rape cases.

I'm sure relatives of people killed by drunk drivers and accidental deaths feel that the perpetrators of the crime should be convicted of murder rather than manslaughter or death by dangerous driving or whichever other lesser offence they are convicted of but I still think that some justice, or at least some acknowledgement of the wrong doing, must be better than the person walking away having been found not guilty.

In this case the poor woman would probably have found it easier to get an assault conviction for the injuries she sustained than a rape conviction

I can't believe they were allowed to discuss her previous sexual history. I thought this was only allowed if the defence agreed to it?