Ulster Rugby trial -continued

Very good article here.

Good post buckeejit.

I think Olding will have been well advised to keep his distance & seek other companions.

Agree that they won't be welcome many places in public & this will follow them. Not enough for any sort of justice for your daughter bumble, and others like her who've been through this.

In my mind the petition for now should be that all sports should have a public statement about codes of conduct & respect for others that is clear cut & that players need to agree to. At least it would stop all this 'only banter' shit about the undisputed messages & at least be one point in their lives where a message is sent to players that they need to think of others & remember they are no better. I know this is only a small thing, but it's something that would be a start.

I’m sure this experience has bound them for life but I can’t imagine they’ll ever want to be seen in public together

I wonder if the two of them remain friends

I agree that Jackson's aggressive attitude right after the trial may have made all the difference. If he hadn't been so keen to swing his dick around and threaten litigation (and actually apologised) public opinion/sponsors/other clubs may have looked at it all a little differently.

He only started to sound contrite when it became clear where public opinion stood. Entitled little swine.

This will follow them. They may get paid to play rugby again elsewhere, they may even have professional success but they will always be the 2 guys who were effectively exiled from Irish rugby due their repugnant behaviour. They will never be celebrated at home again. And every time they walk down an Irish street or into a bar people will look at them for all the wrong reasons. The life they had is gone.

Interestingly, this article says that Exeter are negotiating with Olding but distanced themselves from a deal with Jackson. I wonder why one and not the other?

I think Olding has played his hand very well. While Jackson was running around speaking for himself after court and coming off very blasé, apparently if rumours are to be believed celebrating the verdict, threatening to sue people, and finally an insulting 9 days later issued a carefully worded non-apology...

...Olding stood looking ashamed and sorry while someone made a statement on his behalf. Much easier to look sincere than sound sincere I think. That statement had a much more acceptable tone. He had regrets for what had happened... no one bullied him in to that - he shared those sentiments before the first protest.
Then he shut up. He kept his head down. He waited for the decision from his employer. And when that decision came - even it was excepted with more grace than PJ could muster.

In that sense he looks good by comparison. In some ways I wonder if PJ had behaved in a similar way would the both now be back in their shirts. We’ll never know.

Bumble
I agree, but I am trying to work on the facts which the court decided on.

There are two issues here IMO.
One is this case, with the facts that emerged both in court, and after the case concluded.

I am only speaking about the appropriate outcome for SO and PJ.

Separately, I agree that the case is symptomatic of a misogynistic, powerful, elite attitude- of which your DD is at the receiving end.
I get it- I have two DD's coming to the age of going to the local RFC for nights out.
I was the young girl, hearing those remarks. And knowing that there is no going up against the local RFC or GAA club boys.

I am really sorry that this is happening to your DD and I abhor it. I'm truly sorry if what I said appears to condone that behaviour, because, I absolutely do not.
My DS has had multiple talks about this case so that he knows that these attitudes are unacceptable.

But, I stand by my opinion that losing their jobs is sufficient- and I would hate to see the campaign spread to France or elsewhere.

You can choose to misunderstand what I'm saying.

That part of the brain which is most adept at making refined judgements does not fully mature until 25 or so.
That does not mean that people under 25 are incapable of making decisions or taking the time to consider competing moral viewpoints.
The fact is that this part of the brain is not fully mature until then.

These young men are still completely responsible for their actions and their words.
However, hounding them around Europe (or South Africa, or New Zealand or wherever) does not restitute the young lady in question.
Allowing them time to mature, consider what they have done, and prove that they are worthy of respect in spite of what they wrote is the more considered and mature response.

Or fly small aircraft. Or teach children. Or drive a car. Or join the army/navy/RAF.

If young men are so incapable of taking responsibility for their behaviour, maybe the entire set up of society needs reconsidered.

If men's brains aren't mature enough to make decisions under the age of 25 why do we allow all those 23 and 24 year olds straight out of university make life and death decisions in hospitals up and down the land?

I don't agree...I think that this should follow them. If this happened to someone in the teaching profession they would be struck off and unable to get a job in teaching again...I think the same should hold true here.

And the girl they were 'not guilty' of raping was only 19...think of the damage done there...if anything at 25 they should have been older and wiser...how is she moving on? How is she being judged when going for job interviews? How has her mental health been affected? And she was the victim...

I think they should be blackballed from the sport for life and should never have received a pay off...

What?
How they use this opportunity

No more petitions.
They have been appropriately punished for their unpleasant remarks.
They are not guilty of any other charge...I personally don't want this to turn into a witch hunt.

At this point, I feel it has to be acknowledged that these are both young men (under 25 at the time of the events).
Purely from a neurological viewpoint, their brains- particularly the parts associated with making judgements- does not mature until age 25.
They have made mistakes- they need to go away, think about their actions.

This is an opportunity for them both to learn skills (personality and maturity skills) that they might not otherwise have the opportunity to develop. Post-Traumatic growth and all that.
Living in an elite sports bubble, they may have been coached in ball skills and mindset to overcome a game defeat...but not so much about empathy and compassion.

Overcoming game defeats makes a good sportsman.
Developing compassion make a good human.

It's up to them what they use this opportunity.

I wonder if any of their other sponsors have females in senior roles? They might be the most susceptible to a bit of pressure.

I'm sorry Bumble. Really, I am. I have asked for my earlier post to be deleted. I don't want to cause you and your family more hurt.

Shit pressed send too soon.

It's enough that their little bubble of being hotshots in their home province has been burst.

Another thing that's interesting and isn't being talked about is the fact that BOI has a newly appointed female CEO. Not only that, but she's set an overtly feminist agenda for the company.

I'm sure they would have put pressure on Ulster Rugby anyway to drop them, but it's good to think that powerful women in business are in a position to get push female perspectives more strongly.

Onlylivingboy and NotTaken
I guess it will all depend on how local women feel about them. Whether they want to see them in their club and area.
I just think they if their entire career was ruined it would send a message to other sportsman that misogyny will follow you around forever.
That you will not be able to simply pick up your life and career elsewhere after all most women are not usually able to do that