Matthew d'Ancona in the Guardian - 3rd spaces as the solution

I'm so pleased to hear you're on my side with this, SS. Who knew? You've been doing such a marvellous job at appearing to misunderstand, obfuscate and irritate. But now I know that you have no problem with us not wanting self ID then we're all cool.

No, we're really not cool. As you can see from all the tropes that rowdywoman1 dragged in, this has nothing to do with self id. Self id is a side issue.

If you don't want to continue to piss next to them, as you've been doing for the last 14 years, you're going to need to find a room. Another room.

Doesn't take much push back to break out the MRA rhetoric, does it? Of course, non-consenting women should be pushed out of the public sphere. Of course they should. Why on earth would feminism say anything different?

Like I say - brain rot.

There are fewer than 10k GRC holders in the entire UK. No woman has been "pissing" next to them for the last fourteen years.

I'd like to keep the option to say - you're a man, get out, thank you very much.
Women aren't going to have to find another room. Men are going to have to stop invading our spaces. Transwomen are men. Not women.
I worry for the trans people who are trying to live a quiet life.

@ rowdywoman1

You've missed what's being discussed, which is single sex verses single gender spaces. I'm pointing out that we haven't has single sex spaces for a very long time, responses are mixed. Someone might have seen a beard but she's not sure which loo she was in and, anyway, it's not about actual beards, it's about potential beards.

You don't need to pull in the rest of the tropes yet. Save them for later, when things slow down.

Firstly it's not nudity, it's a latex suit and secondly, why do you keep locking up that naked hiker then?

You were the one who said people wearing naked lady latex body suits would be arrested under indecency laws!

I pointed out that it wouldn't be an offence because it isn't a naked lady

Why do you think that person would be arrested under indecency laws?

I haven't locked up anyone personally and I haven't read the case file so I can't answer the naked hiker question for you.

Most theatres (in london anyway) are v old and have no space. There are massive queues for the ladies already. Not sure how this is going to work / where is the space / who will pay.

Take away some of the current men's facilities, perhaps? Let them do some budging up to accommodate TRA demands

Trans women already have a space. In the ladies, with the rest of us who are legally women.

No issue with women who are LEGALLY women.

I'm fine with you not wanting self id, as I say we have no problem with it here but if your government decide not to go that way, I have no problems with that. However, trans women, with GRCs are legally women and have the protection of the law. They don't need a third space.

I know that. I agree that trans women with a GRC are legally women. They can come in the ladies, as they have been doing for ages.

They have been independently assessed and ticked all the boxes required. I'm no more interested in what they're doing in the cubicle than they are in my bodily fluids.

I am strongly anti self-ID, because then anyone with a penis can say they're a woman.

I'm so pleased to hear you're on my side with this, SS. Who knew? You've been doing such a marvellous job at appearing to misunderstand, obfuscate and irritate. But now I know that you have no problem with us not wanting self ID then we're all cool.

Have indeed bumped into blokes with beards. Assumed it was a case of getting the wrong toilets and leaving in a hurry but hey, who knows, right?

I suppose it could have been a trans man, going along with your sex segregation wishes?

No it doesn't. I'm happy to be corrected but my understanding is that nudity is only an indecent act of the intention is to disrupt/offend.

Firstly it's not nudity, it's a latex suit and secondly, why do you keep locking up that naked hiker then?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9407444/Naked-rambler-bares-all-as-he-walks-free-from-prison.html

From the Suzy Lamplugh Trust:...

I'm surprised the SLT are proferring such outdated advice.

I thought we were all about re-educating women out of trusting their instincts nowadays...

Also from the SLT:

Remember, the earlier you spot a potential problem arising the more choices you have to avoid it.

@NoSquirrels

Trans women already have a space. In the ladies, with the rest of us who are legally women.

I'm fine with you not wanting self id, as I say we have no problem with it here but if your government decide not to go that way, I have no problems with that. However, trans women, with GRCs are legally women and have the protection of the law. They don't need a third space.

If you don't want to continue to piss next to them, as you've been doing for the last 14 years, you're going to need to find a room. Another room.

How many beardy, gender fluids have you bumped into in the loo?

Have indeed bumped into blokes with beards. Assumed it was a case of getting the wrong toilets and leaving in a hurry but hey, who knows, right?

Point is: either you think it’s okay for male-bodied people, beards and everything, to be in there. Or you don’t. You can’t say “well of course it’s perfectly fine” and also “well of course it would never happen”.

Yes that's interesting NoSquirrels! It seems women should listen to their feelings when threatened and not "get over it".

Im really disappointed to hear that you don't think that a women is capable of forming and expressing an opionion all by herself but, in this case, that's exactly what you're dealing with.

The opinion I came to, also all by myself, is that social constructionism rots the brain. I simply point that out when I come across it.

From the Suzy Lamplugh Trust:

Remember:

· Trust your instincts,

· Never underestimate a threat,

· If you feel uneasy or alarm bells start ringing — act right away.

If you cannot de-escalate the situation:

Get away from the aggressor.

You're not a feminist either.

Like I need your endorsement.

yeah, and as a British woman I was totally fine with that until men with beards and “gender-fluid” men started claiming they too were genuinely women and needed to be in there as well. And that women who weren’t comfortable with this were bigots.

How many beardy, gender fluids have you bumped into in the loo?

Entirely agree. So run along and tell your TRA pals that. While you're there, mention that the polling is 3:1 against self-ID.

This!

My feminism has generally been about accepting all women

So, not men then. Good.

Of course, anyone dressed up in a latex naked lady suit in public is going to be arrested, the U.K. has a raft of indecency laws to deal with that kind of thing.

No it doesn't. I'm happy to be corrected but my understanding is that nudity is only an indecent act of the intention is to disrupt/offend.

What is 'indecent' about a latex female body suit? It would just be argued that it is not a real naked lady and no crime has been committed. What would they be arrested for?

You are making a lot of assumptions.

I'm not a man

You're not a feminist either.

@LangCleg

Im really disappointed to hear that you don't think that a women is capable of forming and expressing an opionion all by herself but, in this case, that's exactly what you're dealing with.

Irish women deal with heavy periods and breast milk overflow and manage to deal with them with trans women in the next cubical, just like British women do and have been doing for years.

Indeed. But if there was a THIRD SPACE OPTION then these are the only times I'd choose the SINGLE SEX OPTION. And there would then be no need for trans people to be in the next cubicle at all, as they'd have their space, and no one need worry about being vulnerable at all, regardless of intentions. Us horrid Women Who Want To Be Alone and Exclude Trans People with our Radical Feminism would be happy, and the trans women would presumably be happy not to have to share with us and our awful attitudes, free to mingle with the liberal intersectional folk in the unisex toilet. Not sure quite how you've missed the point so spectacularly there, SS.