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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Matthew d'Ancona in the Guardian - 3rd spaces as the solution

286 replies

rowdywoman1 · 03/04/2018 08:19

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/01/transgender-equality-women-only-carriages-caledonian-sleeper

This seems to me to be a thoughtful and reasonable article. Apart from his irritating use of 'cis' he talks about the need "to build toilets that accommodate trans visitors without making cis women feel uncomfortable." and that in rape crisis centres, trans women seeking work will have to accept that their aspirations are trumped by the rights of the horribly violated. Sorry, but there it is"

It was good to read an article which genuinely tries to navigate a way forward and move the conversation on. And slightly unbelievable to see a second constructive article in the paper that has acquired such a reputation for dismissing women as transphobes and bigots. I wonder whether he'll get the same reaction that Hadley Freeman did?

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 03/04/2018 22:55

How is it possible that you did not get that I was telling you to look it up yourself when I said straight up that google is your friend? Criminy!

NoSquirrels · 03/04/2018 22:53

SS Really - Pencils does “foaming and personal insults? Link?

Stillscreaming · 03/04/2018 22:53

Pencils, you can't do debate. You can't do discussion. You do foaming and personal insults.

NoSquirrels · 03/04/2018 22:51

Constantly fighting off boring personal insults from people who can't muster an actual logical argument.

Not from me, I don’t think. I’ve never personally insulted you, as far as I know - happy to apologise if so if you’d like to link - and I’ve given you plenty logical arguments, but you generally pick a piece of them and try to take it out of context, it seems to me. Again, happy to be proved wrong...

Stillscreaming · 03/04/2018 22:50

Google is your friend.
www.google.com/search?q=women%27s+pattern+recognition+skills&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

You caught me, I trusted you again and you gave me a fucking Google search list. Typing something into google doesn't make it true.

PencilsInSpace · 03/04/2018 22:46

And you people claim to be interested in debate?

Well yeah. Why would I want to go and AS your posts when you're here on the thread and we could have an actual conversation instead?

Stillscreaming · 03/04/2018 22:46

But you do spend a lot of time in odd circular arguments where you cherry-pick the things you’ll respond to and misunderstand or obfuscate to derail. It’s weird, when you’re on our side about self ID being a Not Good Idea.

I go around in odd circular arguments becasue I'm dismissing the same thoughtless and baseless prejudice disguised as argument time after time. Constantly fighting off boring personal insults from people who can't muster an actual logical argument.

LangCleg · 03/04/2018 22:43

Well, I'm not a fan of your world view, StillScreaming, but for what it's worth I assumed you to be a woman (by my definition). That doesn't stop you being a misogynist, however, and you've made some breathtakingly misogynist posts on this thread.

I've just spent a lovely half hour watching Philomena Cunk getting everything arse about face. I thought of you!

Stillscreaming · 03/04/2018 22:43

That was an Alan Partridge style rant if ever I heard one. “Lynn, you couldn’t present a cat”.

It was supposed to be Monty Python.

Stillscreaming · 03/04/2018 22:43

and no-one has directly challenged her about what sex she is.

Bollox, I'm challenged about three times a fucking day by posters who need to get personal becasue they ar unable to back up their positions.

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 03/04/2018 22:42

That was an Alan Partridge style rant if ever I heard one. “Lynn, you couldn’t present a cat”.

NoSquirrels · 03/04/2018 22:40

SS I don’t care what sex or gender you are.

But you do spend a lot of time in odd circular arguments where you cherry-pick the things you’ll respond to and misunderstand or obfuscate to derail. It’s weird, when you’re on our side about self ID being a Not Good Idea.

ThatEscalatedQuickly · 03/04/2018 22:39

Stillscreaming why do you refuse to acknowledge that there are lesbians who do have an issue with the cotton ceiling concept and it's not something dreamt up by straight rad fems?

You are no more entitled to speak for all women, lesbians, feminists or Irish people (or any combination of the above) than I am. Yet it appears that you do so frequently in order to dismiss the legitimate questions and concerns of others.

Stillscreaming · 03/04/2018 22:38

On the internet no one knows if you are a potato, but women for the most part do have highly developed pattern recognition skills.

Really, do we get that from our biology? Do you have any facts to back that up or is it something else that's just popped into you're head and you're presenting as fact?

thebewilderness · 03/04/2018 22:37

Sorry, cross posted with you ad hom.

Stillscreaming · 03/04/2018 22:37

Stillscreaming has never stated what sex she is. She has always presented her posts as if they come from a female, lesbian perspective. If she is male she has never directly indicated this and no-one has directly challenged her about what sex she is.

Or, you could do a advanced search and see that my gender and, to some degree, my sexuality, has already been check and varified by another member.

And you people claim to be interested in debate?

Fuck me, you're a disingenuous lot.

thebewilderness · 03/04/2018 22:35

On the internet no one knows if you are a potato, but women for the most part do have highly developed pattern recognition skills.

Stillscreaming · 03/04/2018 22:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TheDukesOfHazzard · 03/04/2018 22:33

The post is here. Maybe some women would say this, but it stuck me as extremely odd. So it will explain it.

Not that it matters really. I mean who knows who anyone is. The posts speak for themselves.

"Stillscreaming

dealing with a heavy period
dealing with a daughter/friend with a heavy period
dealing with breastmilk leakage
to escape the attention of a man/men

Irish women do those things. We usually keep the door shut.

(To be honest, the 'escaping the attention of a man' one, doesn't strike me as a fantastic plan. I think you need to put a bit more thought into that one.)"

TheDukesOfHazzard · 03/04/2018 22:29

The male thing would explain why you find the idea that teen girls/ young women would hide in the bogs to get away from creepy or persistent men so ridiculous as to tell the person who said it to go away and give some more thought to her examples, or whatever you said.

I have no idea what sex you are, but that was weird.

PencilsInSpace · 03/04/2018 22:26

thebewilderness - Perhaps I misunderstood. I got the impression that stillscreaming is a male who identifies as a Lesbian.

Stillscreaming has never stated what sex she is. She has always presented her posts as if they come from a female, lesbian perspective. If she is male she has never directly indicated this and no-one has directly challenged her about what sex she is.

If stillscreaming is a male who identifies as a lesbian then a helluva lot of things about her posts fall into place. A helluva lot of us did misunderstand though in that case. No other man-who-thinks-he's-a-lesbian would have been given the amount of time and energy here that stillscreaming has enjoyed.

We're on the internet though and nobody knows who is who so what matters more is whether people post verifiable truth or baseless assertions.

Stillscreaming · 03/04/2018 22:21

I don't think so, although it would explain a lot.

Well you've read it on Mumsnet do it must be true. Now tell me, what does that explain?

ThatEscalatedQuickly · 03/04/2018 22:09

I got the impression that stillscreaming is a male who identifies as a Lesbian.

I don't think so, although it would explain a lot.

spoonless · 03/04/2018 21:33

Any chance of you acknowledging that cross dressing fetishists exist?

Yes, I acknowledged that three hours ago with "Everything under the sun can be experienced as a paraphilia."

And believe me I've scrutinised all of this more thoroughly than most people.

So you are allowing truths based on self-declaration?