Matthew d'Ancona in the Guardian - 3rd spaces as the solution

rowdy - I agree, but if you substitute sexual predator for either MRA or AGP, I think the point stands. The AGPs are in charge of the TRA movement now and they don't want to blend in quietly and peacefully. They want to barge in and be validated. Matthew's article is still framed that the argument is between feminists and transsexuals - and it really isn't. As he would know if he spent a bit of time on here and saw how transsexuals and feminists actually interact with one another - a few disagreements, yes, but often broad agreement and many paths for ways forward.

rowdywoman1 - of course I take your point. I don't for a moment think that all (or even most) transgender people are predators. As you say, there are plenty of transwomen who have been peacefully going about their business for decades without doing any harm to anyone.

I do think, however, that the current wave of transactivism is largely driven by people with an anti-woman agenda. In some cases, it's because they want access to women's and girls' spaces for sexual reasons, and in others, perhaps, it's just because they are men's rights activists who hate women.

There are also a lot of people who have been swept up in the transactivist cause who are neither predators nor woman-haters, but who are simply gullible idiots who imagine that the transactivist cause is a progressive one.

Yeah we are all just rolling around in roubles.

At least The Guardian is finally making space for some articles that don't tread the usual lines.

' In the best sense of the word, he is a liberal who, faced with an ethical conundrum, decided to err on the side of trust of his customers.'

Well no, Matthew. He's decided to trust his male customers and disbelieve the female ones. Think about it.

(I like what Ancona is trying to do with this article but he needs to do a lot more listening to women before he will really grasp this issue.)

In reality a lot of us long ago came to the conclusion that current transactivism is an organised effort by sexual predators to invade women's spaces and gain access to potential victims. I think it's quite a steep hill to climb to persuade people like D'Ancona and even Hadley Freeman that that is the case.

Exactly. They still don't understand that it's not about transsexuals any more.

No feminist ever has objected to third spaces. All the solutions he offers here have been suggested and supported by feminists and point blank rejected by TRAs.

It's a good article but he is still stuck in the false TRA framing.

Particulary loving this one

We have had Russian money given to us and a 'platform'

Excellent. I want some beluga caviar too

twitter.com/Raspberry_Saucy/status/980758687332683777

Like ahem...

twitter.com/Giuliana_London/status/980625157092978689

Third spaces totally reasonable. Practicalities of hashing them out in various circumstances would prove difficult of course, but trying to work it out anyway is a lot better than deciding it’s all a bit confusing so let’s just abolish single-sex spaces altogether and call women bigots if we object.

By the abysmal standards of recent articles in the Guardian, then this is quite good, though by the standards of what would constitute a decent analysis of the issues, it doesn't come close.

The problem now is that most of us have come to the conclusion that this isn't about a conflict between women's rights and the rights of transgender people. If it was, there would be a way of discussing it and, hopefully, resolving it amicably. In reality a lot of us long ago came to the conclusion that current transactivism is an organised effort by sexual predators to invade women's spaces and gain access to potential victims. I think it's quite a steep hill to climb to persuade people like D'Ancona and even Hadley Freeman that that is the case.

He comes across as a bit of a knobber but kudos for attempting to propose a solution.

The TRAs are going to hate it though