Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

To any trans activists reading this forum

160 replies

yetanothertranswoman · 01/04/2018 20:15

Fuck off fucking life up for those trans people trying to live our lives.

I heard about some of the stuff people like you got up to but I've had my eyes opened today. Seriously opened.

Stop talking about lady penises.
Stop saying you are a woman.
Stop demanding women be quiet when they raise concerns about what's happening.
Stop harassing woman online
Stop intimidating women trying to speak about their concerns.
Stop initimidating women trying to do a clothes swap.
Stop demanding access to female spaces and just saying "It will be ok"
Stop taking women's spaces as women's officers when you haven't got a fucking clue about life as a woman.

All you are fucking doing is making life more difficult for the rest of us and scaring the shit out of women.

Yes - trans people exist. Some of us have gender dysphoria which is bloody hard to live with. Some people just seem to think that putting on a skirt is enough to make you 'a woman'.

Are you capable of thinking about women and their concerns? All I've seen online is people saying it will be ok.

No - trans people are not the enemy. But there are some trans people and trans activists who scare the shit out of me with their demands and their behaviour.

I've tried to keep my head low and keep out of all this. But no more.

You don't speak for me and you don't speak for many trans people out there.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
gingergenius · 01/04/2018 22:50

It's interesting that on the Facebook page, about the clothes swap, where the main antagonists were aggressively responding to Venice et al, when I posted a 'we don't hate hate you, we just want to talk' post, they went silent. I guess that doesn't fit their narrative.

It's frustrating. I guess, naively, I just hope those posters will hear something other than their own hatred.

It makes me very sad.

MrsFogi · 01/04/2018 22:34

Thank you yatw we need many more genuine trans people speaking up to balance the vitriol of trans-misogynists and I am grateful to you for doing so. As some other posters have said these misogynists in dresses threaten not only women's rights but also those of lesbians, gays and genuine trans people.

LightofaSilveryMoon · 01/04/2018 22:34

@ferntwist "I hope these maniacs don’t succeed in making life as difficult for women and non-aggressive trans people as they seem to be attempting to. I wonder what their real agenda is? They are setting women and trans rights back a long time."

It seems to me, more and more, that the aggressive "TRAs" are nothing at all of the sort, and that they're just the usual misogynists, MRAs, men who hate women, same as always. Hijacking the trans cause for their own ends is just another tactic for them and they really don't give a shit so long as they can hurt women.

bellabelly · 01/04/2018 22:34

"I do feel that us so-called TERFS need to make it clearer to those calling us bigots that we are not against trans women with gender dysphoria (which must be awful) but we are opposed to the trans activists who are no more than cross-dressers and who confuse wearing make-up with being a woman."

Those calling us bigots aren't interested in hearing that, though - sadly. They just want to smear us all with the "transphobic" label as it serves their purpose very well. From what I can gather, most of us with concerns are very, very un-phobic (if that's even a word) and very, very "vive la difference". I hope that the majority of trans people understand that - I am not "anti-trans" in any way. But pics of men with baseball bats and slogans like "Die, CIS scum" scare me (as they are supposed to).

Datun · 01/04/2018 22:32

@yetanothertranswoman

I'd like to add my support to your post.

In an effort to understand and find solutions, there is a sort of weird evolution to this issue for many women.

One can wax and wane over the detail. Like whether there is a sliding scale of credibility, a sort of 'grading' of authenticity of transwomen. From the determination to always misgender someone, on the basis that it's simply wrong to buy into any part of the ideology, to the pre-op/postop basis for credibility. And of course, the difference between AGP and GID.

All compounded by the determination to resist one's socialisation to be 'nice', as it becomes increasingly counter-productive. Which can conflict with one's natural humanity.

And then of course, there's the give an inch, take a mile, aspect that women understand only too well.

But, and I can only speak for myself, there comes a point, (and that point is now), where the sheer hatred and misogyny for women, by people who are no more trans than I am, takes the issue to a different level entirely.

Although you, and transactivists both have the name transwomen, you couldn't be further apart.

Gender dysphoria might well, on some profound level, be a condition that is either based on, or certainly exacerbated by, the gender stereotyping that feminists have tried to dismantle. And on that level it can be hard to give any quarter.

Which accounts for the uneasiness of the allyship that has now arisen.

But. Being on different sides of the question of gender reinforcement, seems, at least to me, something that is now utterly eclipsed by the chasm that has arisen over the 'TRA and women' divide.

Gender dysphoria, as a concept, doesn't help women. It doesn't help feminism. It does the opposite.

And, of course, I understand you have no agency. You don't choose it. Like women we often have to adhere to a system, navigate it, accommodate it, whilst disagreeing with it. We can't all be heroes.

You, and many other transwomen, are, beyond doubt, being used to further a deeply misogynistic agenda. I can only imagine the frustration you feel when you say not in my name.

Men managing gender dysphoria is a dot in the distance politically. This war on women transcends it.

The only way to stop this onslaught is to prove to our politicians that they are not accommodating transpeople. And the only way that can happen is with posts like yours.

So I appreciate your OP.

It's not just necessary, it's vital.

MrsZippyLake · 01/04/2018 22:23

I do feel that us so-called TERFS need to make it clearer to those calling us bigots that we are not against trans women with gender dysphoria (which must be awful) but we are opposed to the trans activists who are no more than cross-dressers and who confuse wearing make-up with being a woman.

thebewilderness · 01/04/2018 22:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FirstShinyRobe · 01/04/2018 22:16

Apology accepted

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 01/04/2018 22:15

Good for you! Flowers

Xenophile · 01/04/2018 22:13

yet I am so sorry.

One of my big fears is that the behaviour of some of the TRAs is going to cause a huge backlash against trans people and I'm really sorry for it.

A lot of GC feminists are working closely with trans people who just want to get on with life sans all the drama and I hope that we can get it all sorted. You take good care.

Cwenthryth · 01/04/2018 22:11

I want to give you a huge round of applause, bunch of flowers and a massive hug, OP, if you’re a hugging kind of person. I’m not usually a hugger but some occasions call for it don’t they. The whole TRA agenda stinks, to put it mildly.

Tygr are you able to say which party?

ferntwist · 01/04/2018 22:05

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

womanhuman · 01/04/2018 22:03

Thanks yet and tru.

CuppaTeaAndAJammieDodger · 01/04/2018 21:56
Flowers
waterlego6064 · 01/04/2018 21:54

Thank you yetanothertranswoman and Truscum. Your courage in speaking out is very much appreciated and valued. I am very sorry that you and your fellow genuine transwomen are being misrepresented so horribly by these aggressive individuals.

Thank you for identifying with women, to use the marvellous phrase coined by Debbie Hayton in her recent article. 💐

newtlover · 01/04/2018 21:53

great post OP
would be great if enuine transexuals were able to get together and be heard- but I understad how difficult that could be
similarly we could do with hearing more from gender critical men (straight and gay)

bellasuewow · 01/04/2018 21:50

Awesome post, thank you for standing up for trans people and women 💐💐

PoliticallyHomeless · 01/04/2018 21:44

This makes me so sad/angry.

Flowers yetanother and Truscum. We're with you!

Amethyst975 · 01/04/2018 21:40
Thanks
Teacuphiccup · 01/04/2018 21:36

Totally agree squirrels
One of the things I’ve found so hard about this whole thing is seeing how erm I’m not sure if the right word, dispensable? Women are.

Why are people not questioning the fact that women who have literally dedicated their lives to gay rights and equality have suddenly become bigots? Why are they so quick to just dismiss us as hateful harpies.

It’s revealed to me a level of misogyny that I thought had disappeared years ago.

On the other hand I have discovered a complete love and respect for older women. They are fucking fearless and inspire me everyday.

BoogieFeet · 01/04/2018 21:36

Flowers for the OP

RogerAllamsFangirl · 01/04/2018 21:35
Thanks
Bufferingkisses · 01/04/2018 21:32

Thank you yetanother. I was having this conversation with my child last night. Previously I was worried they would be singled out in a pub or called out in a bathroom - normal mother worries given the situation I think.

Now I'm terrified they'll be outed by a daily mail reader as an activist and get real trouble. Turns out they feel the same. All they want is to quietly get on with their life. The last thing they want is to cause disquiet or upset. They know the difference between nipping in for a pee and demanding to be allowed in a women's refuge - as any right thinking person does.

The whole thing is so sad for all the people who just want to live their lives. I hate that women are being silenced but I hate - possibly more - that trans people are being silenced unless they say the "right" things. I dont see how anyone is going to win here Sad

NoSquirrels · 01/04/2018 21:25
Flowers

I actually like the #transrightsarehumanrights thing - because this is true. Trans people are people, and their rights are human rights.

What they aren't is #women'srights. They're #transrights.

We can all work together on this if each side makes room.

But while one side is screaming and refusing to even acknowledge there's a conflict to solve, women can't budge either.

I want you to feel safe, yetanother. I want Truscum to feel safe. I want everyone to feel respected and listened to.

More Flowers for you.

PositivelyPERF · 01/04/2018 21:24

I’m glad to see you backTruscum. I had noticed you haven’t been around, but wasn’t sure if you had made a name change. Though in saying that, I didn’t read any posts that ‘sounded’ like you. 🌹