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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

David Davies MP being investigated for allowing feminists to discuss proposed law changes at the House of Commons

72 replies

BloodyFreezing · 01/04/2018 10:59

thetimes.co.uk/article/95eea6aa-3524-11e8-8e3a-d639f3c4b43e

OP posts:
athingthateveryoneneeds · 01/04/2018 16:43

Canary in the coalmine - apt analogy.

I will follow this with interest. I'm glad I ignored his offices a few weeks back - hemust have been inundated by negative complaints but he also knows he is speaking for women all over the country. Thank you sir.

SophoclesTheFox · 01/04/2018 16:39

I can't see that tweet, bore, not sure why - could you precis it please?

And YY to the authoritarian element. How people can't see it baffles me.

Bellatron · 01/04/2018 16:34

Also worth reacquainting ourselves with the political compass that places political views not only on the left/right spectrum but also the authoritarian/libertarian spectrum

True.

It's the extreme elements of both that are always the problem - too authoritarian/too libertarian & too far right/too far left.

I see it across all debates - Trans, Brexit etc; it's the extremes that poison the discourse, always.

AmberLangslow · 01/04/2018 15:42

The Press Review guy was Bobby Friedman, apparently - never heard of him but he came across as a right entitled twat in that clip.

mobile.twitter.com/BobbyFriedman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

LangCleg · 01/04/2018 15:12

What HairyBallTheorem said. We should watch for the outcome of this and hope that it is extremely firm in asserting the right to freedom of speech and association. Also worth reacquainting ourselves with the political compass that places political views not only on the left/right spectrum but also the authoritarian/libertarian spectrum. I'm a left libertarian myself and will most certainly not be voting for an authoritarian Labour Party.

BoreOfWhabylon · 01/04/2018 15:10

Sophocles

What exactly are they investigating him for, though I wonder? And at who's instigation?

mobile.twitter.com/mcashmanCBE/status/973300985450901508

?

womanformallyknownaswoman · 01/04/2018 14:57

@SmurfOrTerf Yes I agree - I felt threatened by him just watching him - he was really "squaring up" to her and yes looking at her and speaking to her like a piece of sh*t - disgusting public behaviour

HairyBallTheorem · 01/04/2018 14:57

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - extreme transgenderism ("transwomen ARE women, refusal to say this is a thought crime which should be punishable by law, and misgendering is literal violence") is the canary in the coal mine for the rise of the authoritarian left.

Regardless of one's views on trans rights, everyone should be worried about the way this is playing out, because what we're seeing is an out and out assault on freedom of speech and freedom of political expression. I will certainly be following what happens with the parliamentary standards commissioner with interest - because if they jump the wrong way on this one, parliamentary democracy is stuffed in this country.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 01/04/2018 14:55

It's great to see the TRAs are not gender blind with their smears - as Sophocles notes - DD shouldn't have to go thorough this but at least it will make him more of an advocate of ours and that can only be good - he can speak of their harassing and mobbing tactics from personal experience now - the TRAs are despicable - echoes of the Brown Shirts/Scientologists - but they are outing themselves

SophoclesTheFox · 01/04/2018 14:49

In a way, much as I feel that David D should absolutely not be subjected to this nonsense, it's sort of a good thing that it's a man now under fire. Many men don't really give two shits if they think it's uppity women and feminists getting a rough ride, but when the sparkle army start coming for men, and Tory men to boot, well...! That's a different, and much more concerning matter.

What exactly are they investigating him for, though I wonder? And at who's instigation?

R0wantrees · 01/04/2018 13:49

Grin Grin

BoreOfWhabylon · 01/04/2018 13:44

"transgender vegetariansm"

BoreOfWhabylon · 01/04/2018 13:42

Cross-post Grin

BoreOfWhabylon · 01/04/2018 13:42

Baroness Deech was on Broadcasting House, not Sunday, as I previously stated

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09xcs6h#play

Segment starts @ 44:00.

R0wantrees · 01/04/2018 13:40

I heard it too... & have just listened back (its at 53m into Broadcasting House) Ruth Deech is discussing the very real threats and risk of violence that Malala Yousafzai faces as she returns to Pakistan for the first time and the bravery she demonstrates.

She contrasts this with her deep concerns for practise of no platforming /closing down of debates in some universities (as Bore says above) and includes transgender issues as one of the areas where this is happening.
Its worth listening to... www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09xcs6h#play

Bellatron · 01/04/2018 13:29

Now that I know her name! I just googled her & this is where she talked about TRAs last year (following the Hyde Park thing).

Her co-reviewer in this case was not a knob.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=IYIPcfV-F7A

mateysmum · 01/04/2018 13:29

I have met Baroness Deech on many occasions and she has always been a staunch representative of women's advancement, though in a very measured way as befits an academic and eminent lawyer

TerfsUp · 01/04/2018 13:25

What was really interesting to me is that C Patterson referenced Mumsnet. I hope by doing so that she shows that this issue is of concern to many women and not just radical feminists.

TerfsUp · 01/04/2018 13:24

Thank you for the share tokens, everyone.

And good for Christina Patterson for showing TRA self-ID idiocy to be the nonsense it is.

SmurfOrTerf · 01/04/2018 13:23

Womanformally I was just about to make the exact same point. His body language was atrocious, looking down on her like she was dirt.

BastardGingerCat · 01/04/2018 13:21

That first comment's been deleted Indecisive

womanformallyknownaswoman · 01/04/2018 13:18

@AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth

Who was that prat of a guy talking over Christina Patterson in the clip and defending surgical interventions on kids? - His demeanour and stance was very hostile. Honestly it's guys like him that need to listen and learn rather than asserting their bullying male entitlement - guy toddlers in adult guises of various sorts, all around, telling women what to think and say and warning them to behave

BoreOfWhabylon · 01/04/2018 13:08

Baroness Deech this morning on Radio 4 Sunday programme went on a little rant when they were reviewing items of news. A piece about genetically engineered vegetarian 'meat' caused her to make a comment about transgendered vegetables (ie not real veg). She also had a bit to say about no platforming and shutting down of free speech in universities, although she didn't relate this to the transgender debate but more generally.

Bellatron · 01/04/2018 13:04

@AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth
Yes!
It wasn't a rant imo (as claimed by the TRA link, unsurprisingly) - she was direct is all.

IntelligentYetIndecisive · 01/04/2018 13:01

The parliamentary commissioner for standards has launched an investigation into a Tory MP after he held an event with feminists who are opposed to planned transgender legislation.

David Davies, MP for Monmouth, called the inquiry “sinister” and “unbelievable” and said parliamentary rules were being “abused” by transgender activists to deny freedom of speech.

Members of the We Need To Talk group say potential legal changes allowing people born male to “self-identify” as women will threaten biological women’s spaces and rights.

Their meeting took place in parliament on March 14. Davies agreed to host them when Millwall football club, the original venue, cancelled after pressure from transgender lobbyists.

“This was a meeting with women who’ve got perfectly legitimate concerns about legislation the government has said it’s bringing forward,” Davies said.

“Of course they’ve got a right to discuss it in the legislature. There is an important principle of freedom of speech here.”

  • Andrew Gilligan

2 comments so far

I look forward to hearing the outcome of this ridiculous inquiry. If the HoC is gonna say that hosting feminist debates on issues that affect us is breaching parliamentary standards, I would really like to know how they intend to explain this kind of discrimination against women.

What I think will more likely be the case is that they have had a bunch of trans activists - who do not represent trans people it must be noted - calling to complain that this event was literally killing them, and that feminists want them dead. No, you read that right, lots of trans activists have tweeted that feminists discussing our sex based rights is literally and deliberately killing trans people.

Any inquiry will, hopefully, be dealing with the real world where biology is not bigotry, and where women do not need to reject the whole of science and our lived experiences in order to pretend that men can be women (a contention which is not necessary for trans identity, as the many gender critical trans people are testament to).

Trans women are trans women. They are not females and never can be. This is a meaningful difference. Women are a distinct class of people precisely because we have experiences that only women can have, and we are oppressed due to our bodies and live under a climate of male violence. Predatory trans women have done everything to women and girls that other predatory men have (most trans women remain fully male bodied and are given all the same rights of transsexuals) and predators don't come with a warning, so it's around the male body that women are in danger and indeed need to manage this threat, however they identify.

So we deserve our own spaces, services, initiatives etc, and we have the right to freedom of speech and to organise as a class to address our rights. And we will not submit the abusive tactics of males who would silence us. Hopefully the HoC won't either.

And

Well done David Davies for hosting this event. This sinister legislation is being allowed to pass under the radar of public scrutiny. Legitimate objections should be aired, and more importantly, publicised.

The ramifications of allowing men to 'self declare' they are women are enormous and potentially disastrous for women on so many levels - personal safety, career equality, legal status are just the tip of the iceberg.

Commentators are not credited because more people are reading this than the Times article behind a paywall.