Kiri Tunks

for Sawyer. This thread made me feel very sad.

I wish you success in your career.

according to something I saw on Twitter earlier it makes you an Andro-Skoliosexual Woman, I think.

I saw this term on Tumblr and assumed it meant attraction to people with scoliosis, but of course being Tumblr it couldn't possibly be that straighforward. Can't remember what it was meant to mean though. "Sapiosexual" wins the smug prize for the implication that everyone other than the person describing themselves thus is attracted to stupid people.

I'd lost this thread, and I'm so glad I came back. It got really interesting.

Sawyer, if you are still there, I'm really sorry about the poor treatment you have had from various places, and the abuse you've suffered.

There are jerks on all sides of this debate, and we can't stop that from letting us discuss all the ramifications of being inclusive. You are passionate, and have the potential to be a great teacher by the sound of it. Do be careful though, that your ideology doesn't infringe on the rights of vulnerable students. You might find over time, that it becomes really hard to meet everyone's needs individually.

Please be aware that the vast majority of gender critical feminists are not transphobic, they do not wish you or any other trans person anything but the best. They just want to be able to discuss safeguarding of children and adults.

Should male rapists who subsequently identify as women be moved to a woman's jail?

Neither should it stop trans people using a bathroom that matches their identity

What, self IDed 'trans people'? So anyone who simply says 'I am a woman'? So basically...any bloke?

Yeah, all these silly hysterical women, being afraid of fictional and rare male violence eh?

@changeypants according to something I saw on Twitter earlier it makes you an Andro-Skoliosexual Woman, I think.

Is a heterosexual man who is attracted to a transman transphobic (because they are not recognising the transman's preferred gender presentation) or subconsciously gay (because they are reading the transman as a man)?

I'm heterosexual and, personality and winning smiles aside, part of my attraction to men is an attraction to male genitalia. I don't speak for all hetero women, but this is just how it is and always has been for me. A nice penis feels good during sex - I guess that's part of it? Whilst I am attracted to people who dress confidently, I do not care whether a man I'm attracted to wears trousers or a dress. Does it make me transphobic that I would not have sex with a trans man on account of their genitalia? But I could find a trans woman attractive if they had a penis and no fake breasts... What does that make me?!

this is a very sad discussion.

sawyer in your example, if they do know you are trans and are not attracted to you because they know you are not a man, is that transphobic? If not, why not?

So for instance if no one knew I was trans and they assumed I was bio Male and they were attracted to me for a number of reasons, then when I revealed my trans status they said oh I don’t like that or oh I’m not attracted to you anymore, that is transphobic. Because up until 2 seconds ago they were attracted to me, now they’re saying my genitals mean I am not a man. That is transphobic.

I’ve been going out with going people and fancied them and almost had sex with them and then decided I didn’t want to for any number of reasons. Political views, they stood up and they were shorter than I tend to go for, they support a football team I don’t like, I don’t like their shoes, their fingers are too short and thick, they grew a beard.
Why can you have preferences over these types of things but not over genitalia? It’s rape culture and conversion therapy all rolled into one. It’s homophobic.

I think your school treated you terribly and would back you the hilt in taking legal action against them on the grounds that they should have allowed to at least use staff facilities.

No one said a lesbian HAS to be sexually attracted to a trans woman.

I have. I’m bisexual mind but I’ve been told it have to include tran people (specifically transwomen) in my circles of attraction or I am transphobic.

I agree with many others, how you were treated at school sawyer was dreadful

I can't help consider consent in this discussion.

The tea analogy.

People have the right to change their minds. That is not phobic.

Sadly, I couldn't cope with the way a prospective partner kissed and my attraction diminished immediately.

True love transcends all this, physical things etc. Sexual attraction is entirely individual and subjective, even involving senses of smell etc, (research says a potential mates' smell can can link to their health or a good mix of genes in their gametes that will work well with yours to reproduce healthy offspring) as it is extremely biological and driven by our selfish genes' desire to reproduce.

We are one of the few species to practice sexual activity without the aim to reproduce, but it's still based in those biological roots.

sawyer I can't believe how your school acted towards you, utterly disgusting. I am sure you will make an excellent teacher as you will have developed empathy skills others won't have. You will learn a lot about safeguarding however, and how careful teachers have to be in both what they 'promote' and how they handle anything sensitive, especially in relation to bodies and sex.

You might like to read this
threadreaderapp.com/thread/980548632213516288.html

Absolutely, SpringTrolls - I missed those out as what came to mind was female development, not surprisingly, and I hope the boys would be able to discuss those issue with a male mentor.

Not that that would make it much less excruciatingly embarrassing than the all-girls sessions with our elderly probably 40ish biology teacher.

I’m 19... but I don’t see what that has to do with this?

Thank you. I was trying to assess your level of vulnerability, which I appreciate appears patronising - but I can be short, blunt and brusque and would rather not if the person I'm conversing with has vulnerabilities or even may have vulnerabilities.

Sawyer, I assert your right to any internal identity you choose and whatever presentation you choose. I wish you a fulfilled life.

But I'm not going to pretend material reality does not exist. You have a sex, which is immutable. You also have a sexuality, which is heterosexual. These things are true regardless of your internal identity or outward presentation.

Sawyer:
"But if gender is not defined by genitals then it IS transphobic for a lesbian to not want to date a trans woman just because of her genitals. They’re basically saying they’re not a woman"

If that's the case, what consequences should there be for that transphobic lesbian do you think?

And boys should be able to talk about wet dreams, pre-cum, and wank socks without considering they are sharing these talks with someone who cannot relate.
People can deny it all they want, but there are differences between the sexes regardless of how they feel internally. Both sexes go through different things during childhood, puberty and beyond. They should be free to discuss these situations freely in groups where they feel comfortable without being silenced because they are excluding others. Like it or not, there will always be some situations where the other sex is excluded.

(Sorry, Flora, Noeffing - that wasn't directed at your posts - I just type slowly.)

Can we get off the inflatable willy chat for a bit, and get back to the topic of safeguarding children?

I would worry, Sawyer, that you are understandably very biased to one side on this subject. It would be surprising if you weren't. There are times when, in a school setting, that might mean a considerable conflict of interest.

Girls who wish to change out of the presence of boys, and vice versa, should be able to do so. A male child's inner identity makes no difference to the privacy of those girls.

Girls should be allowed to compete at sports without having to compete against boys. A male child's inner identity makes no difference to their physical stature, lung capacity or pelvic structure.

Girls should be allowed to discuss periods, pregnancy etc without having to consider whether they are 'excluding' boys. A male child's inner identity makes no difference to their ability to menstruate.

By all means carry on smashing the gender barriers in situations where everyone has all their clothes on and physical strength is not an issue.

no one he has slept with has ever been able to tell
Were their partners blindfolded or doing it in the dark, or just sexually inexperienced or something?
Also, didn't they notice the mastectomy scars? I can't imagine having sex with a person and not being complely familiar with every inch of their body.

The rod is not very obvious at all. Like I said, my friend has one of the rods and no one he has slept with has ever been able to tell

If this is true, your friend has been having a very limited set of sexual experiences designed to hide the fact she does not have a functioning penis. Lights on or naked massage would reveal the truth immediately. It’s illegal in a number of places to mislead someone into having sex with a partner not of the sex they really are. What about their partner’s right to define their sexuality?

I'm so pleased! She's a prominent campaigner against sexism in schools, as well as being gender critical. I've met her at a few feminism in schools events and she is very impressive.