Just when you thought the LibDems couldn't out-crazy Labour...

Which one of you bitches wants to dance

Apropos nothing

So you didn’t follow them 😂

Hormones and mapping are irrelevant. The whole premise of whether brains are sexed or not depends on the fact that bodies are sexed.

If transwomen are women and sexed bodies are meaningless then there can be no male or female brain as there is no male or female body to use determine the sex of brains.

Who is this Myra Huntley please, Supa? The bastard child of Myra Hindley and Ian Huntley, perhaps.

BernardBlack loving your work on here, and been meaning to say for ages I love your username.
I have the box set

I'd love to see a citation or link to this piece of science...

won't somebody think of the punctuation?

Jeez just jeez.
Ranty muchly

Citation please.

(And you still haven't responded to the point about statistics. Almost as if you didn't understand it.)

supa

Sorry who was that to?

Ummmm, and you are trying to prove what in your comment? Of course they scanned the brains of men, and women. And yes, amazingly, they we determined as presented. As men, and as women. And yes they had corresponding brain mapping. But, this was in answer to a statement, there wasn't a male brain, or female brain. Yet it has been scientifically, again, scientifically proven, and published, by a professor, at a hospital, peer reviewed, that there are fundamental differences between males and female brains. This contradicts a statement made by a contributor that stated such a thing didn't exist.
In further tests, the production of oestrogen and testerone was monitored and mapped in the brains actions, and it proved a link between hormone levels and brain activity.
In further tests, the brains of newly diagnosed trans women were mapped, and there were corresponding similarities between a large number of Trans women, pre hormone, brain mapping.
This was monitored, during the application of hormone therapy, testerone blocking drugs, and the application if oestrogen to the trans women. Over a period of 2 years a fundamental and exponential change in the brain mapping if 3500 patients was shown. In comparison to the male mapping, the transgender mapping, pre hormone, the transgender mapping post hormone treatment, and a female brain map, there were fundamental shifts in the internal process and structure to that of an atypical female brain map.
A thesis was produced that proved, whilst genetic make up of chromosomes create fundamental sex characteristics, gender was more driven by hormonal balance. Which yes, is driven by ovaries and testicles, but does show variance that support transgender diagnosis, and early diagnosis, (pre birth) of intersex children. So yes, I GET IT. !! DO YOU ???

Thank you for answering one of the questions supa

There isnt a party line though, most of us dont agree on everything

Speaking for myself only, i get a bit fed up of people coming on here and saying that everyone on FWR is is this that or the other

When we are all different people with different views...we all have different 'lines in the sand'

Like, "odd" is the neighbor with OCD who has to take the bins out in precisely the same way every time, or the relative who insists on including a not remotely relevant limerick in all their Christmas cards. Karen White is a rapist.

I can't say "odd" is the word I'd pick to describe Karen White...

Supa, are you OK? You seem to be ashamed of everyone? Have a .

Stop right there!
Hyperbole much?

Where the fuck are people criticising all trans people?! On here, I think you will find people either criticising actions, or policies, or failures/weakening of safeguarding.
You will also find criticising of organisations that promote weakening safeguarding to the detriment of women an children.
However YOU are demonising everyone on here. Hypocrisy.

Most people here have a lot of compassion for transexuals and non gender conformity. I expect a lot of us are Non Gender conforming. What we don't have time for is redefining the definition of the word woman to mean anyone. And we don't have time for punching fucking great holes in safeguarding just so a few people's feelings don't get hurt. Diddums.

PS - paragraphs are your friend.

But do you have an argument in there, aside from appeals to female socialisation by trying to press emotional buttons?

Take living harmoniously. Great idea. My model for this would be by analogy with religious tolerance. Let people dress, "present", call themselves what they want. Have their right to do so protected by law. But do not try to enforce their beliefs on others - live and let live. And do not place male-bodied individuals in women's prisons, rape crisis centres, homeless shelters, communal open-plan changing rooms, do not allow them to take part in women's sports.

Make "gender presentation" a protected characteristic, so that no-one gets kicked out of a job or housing for atypical gender presentation, but one which is a protected characteristic among many others, to be balanced among the many. And make sure that there are certain circumstances where sex is the absolute primary characteristic - the exceptions I've mentioned above.

That, to my mind, gives the right balance between protecting a pluralistic society and dealing with discrimination, while protecting women as a group.

Please note space bar, it vastly improves the readability of one's rants.

Am I ashamed. Yes. I am ashamed. Ashamed that there are non genuine trans women out there. I am ashamed that a whole genre of people are criticised for the actions of the very few. Based on that, all women must be evil sadistic child killers, Myra Huntley, dangerous murdering lesbians, Rose West, but they are minority figures.
I am ashamed that there are trans women who proffess to be as good as, if not better than women, when it blatantly isn't true. No trans woman has the full experience of being female. From birth, through childhood, through puberty and beyond, missing the social condition and societal pressures placed on girls and young women. The institutional sexism, and mysoginy women endure from Infant to imfirmity.
I am also ashamed to be part of a society that cannot be inclusive, diverse, harmonious, leaving the odd of character and behaviour, such as White in the minority in which they belong.
I am ashamed that girls and women walk the streets in fear, and have a whole list of do's and don'ts to enable them to remain safe, because of men's predatory nature, and ashamed again, that the whole of mankind is tarred with the brush of violence perpetrated by a minority.
I am ashamed that an open debate cannot be had, without pedantry and bitterness, with an open mind and open heart, to learn genuinely, by experience, and not by innuendo and whispered gossip. Of all of those things, yes I am ashamed.
And I am ashamed to belong to a group who will demean my comments through bitchy comments and snide statements, referring to a single event 10 years ago, that will prove a point. Mostly, I am ashamed that a resource created for women, to help with their children's development, concerns during pregnancy, advise on children's and family needs, to support mums through tough times, emotionally and physically has become a hotbed of nastiness and intimidaintimidation, because God help you if you don't follow the deemed party line, and decide to make your own mind up, through personal experiences and friendships.

Floral and Vicky I just have to say I'm loving the use of language from MacBeth in your posts.

Supasoapy, your missive, does not have to be, well written. Although, fewer, commas would, make it easier to, follow

Ok see if you can follow this.

You think that there are studies that show male and female brains are different and that trans people have the brain of their chosen gender identity?

Let’s talk about those studies.

How do you think they might have worked out what a typical male or female brain was, in order to compare it to the trans persons brain?

They would have scanned the brains of a bunch of males and a bunch of females, and looked to see what characteristics were common in male brains and which in female brains, right? With me so far?

So...how did they know which were the male brains and female brains in the study? If being male or female has nothing to do with reproductive potential, how could they tell which of the brains they scanned were male and which were female?

The only reason it is even possible to talk about a typically male brain or a typically female brain is because of the fact that, in order to be typically male or typically female, it has to be typically found inside a SEXED MALE OR FEMALE BODY

because once a trans woman has declared and started transition, any male privilege is removed, they are treated below women, mostly below contempt.

How much male privilege has been removed from Caitlyn Jenner, Pips Bunce, Travis Albanza, Paris Lees, India Willoughby, Karen White to name just a few?

This also answers the question of "what makes them female" Brain structure, chemistry and function.

That is such a load of old tosh I don't know where to begin it has been debunked several times but this belief of 'female' brains was used against women for millenia in order to bar them from society, refuse them an education, etc., etc., and yay progress! we are going right back to that archaic nonsense.

Female oppression is rooted in female biology, women are most definitely far more than the sum of their reproductive capacity and have fought long and hard for that to be the case. If you cannot understand why females need to discuss and centre their reproduction capability, how it is viewed and how it effects everything to do with female rights then I pity you. Trans Women do not, and never will, share nor understand the history and struggles of females because it is exclusive to females.