Shon Fay smearing mumsnet on twitter.

I'm genuinely sorry if you have concerns about the idea that trans rights could place you in danger. There's absolutely no evidence for this but I appreciate the fear is real. Some people are scared of escalators. It's something you're going to have to work on and I wish you well

The calm supremacism in this is revolting. It basically translates as Paris's feelings matter, and no woman's does. Paris extends a tiny bit of basic social skills towards the conversation in an attempt to sound less of an arse, but has issued Paris's orders dripping with male privilege. 'Get over it now, and enable me 'cos I say so'.

No. No matter how often the narrative is framed as 'this is a done deal', no it isn't. No, you don't get to set the parametres of the conversation. No, you don't get to be the only person worthy of respect or being heard. Women are not inferior to you. Women will not be obeying you.

And I could be equally rude here about what I could suggest Paris needs to 'get over', but I'm not as dismissive of other human beings as Paris is.

“Half the UK population is female, I think it is the case that most women end up having kids. The fact that "mum" conjures up images of boring women with no interest past their children for so many people, highlights just how sexist our society still is.”

This

Brilliant post Terftastic

Shon has just had a twitter rant over stuff raised on this thread.

Meanwhile Paris Lees dismisses fears of men in women's spaces as "some people are afraid of escalators - you need to get over it"

I'm genuinely sorry if you have concerns about the idea that trans rights could place you in danger. There's absolutely no evidence for this but I appreciate the fear is real. Some people are scared of escalators. It's something you're going to have to work on and I wish you well

Just zero understanding shown there. Zero. It's like all that male violence just never happens, and suddenly we have get over it - and yes, have a male bodied nurse with stubble doing your smear. And males on a female psychiatric ward.

Everything is always a woman's problem - you notice that? We have sexual abuse of women and girls - on an almost industrial scale in places like Telford - but we're told allowing men in women's spaces is an irrational fear.

We get very little chance of justice when we seek it - victim blaming and rape myths permeate the court system - in court this week, a woman who was left bleeding, crying, and stating clearly what happened to her was not consensual - along with texts about "Belfast sluts' and "like a merry go round' - don't result in a conviction. Because she went to a party with men. Famous men, rich men with power and fame, "sportsmen."

What do we do when we try to keep ourselves safe - with segregation on the basis of sex, but can't - because anyone can ID as a woman, and enter female spaces?

And then we're told "anyone acting inappropriately will be breaking the law, and dealt with accordingly"? They won't be - they aren't. Women are told they are overreacting, or lying, or making it up. Men are found not guilty.

I gave up on that article Darth, when he said he has boy genetics
FFS

TheGoldenBough that's a good assessment and I think there'a a lot of truth in what you say.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/bookmark/eddie-izzard-reflects-coming-as-transgender-why-caitlyn-jenner-is-a-role-model-1012926

Sorry not the best source but I couldn't be arsed to find others but I know they are out there. Sure there was references in the Guardian about it.

Is Eddie Izzard now a 'she' too??!!

Clearly missed that one!

So Shawcross has resigned so Eddie Izzard has now got her seat on the NEC....

It is a frightening example of social engineering accomplished by the corporate media in collusion with their advertisers and misogynists yearning for the good old days, isn't it.
Please pass the tin foil hats.

I agree. I went to university in the early 90s and there were lots of straight boys (and gay boys) in makeup. Kurt Kobain was their role model. Nobody gave a fuck. Or actually there was plenty of that! anybody remember the James song "Laid"? "Dressed me up in women's clothes, messed around with gender roles, lined my eyes ans called me pretty" was about a male/female relationship afaik and was our mantra. Fun times.

Totally agree.

Someone on another thread made the point that parenting became so much about understanding and facilitating and enabling that this generation have nothing to be 'angry' about; nothing to rebel against.

I think this has a lot to do with it. My son is reasonably GNC - I've never laid down boundaries based on him being a boy so he's quite comfortable messing about with nail polish and make up etc whilst still recognising he is a straight man. He's also fairly laid back and wouldn't bother with rebelling anyway!

He has a girlfriend. She 'identifies' as many things (lactose intolerant whilst eating cheese and drinking milkshakes, amongst other dairy products, and suffering no ill effects is one thing...) including: pansexual and polyamorous.

Now I was, understandably, a bit concerned about this initially. My son is a bit of an old romantic, who falls in love and gets his heart broken. Not the sort who'd normally be suited to a polyamorous partner.

However, I said nothing (being the sensible mum I am) and a few months down the line it transpires that, at least to her:

Pansexual means she has only ever dated boys. And has only ever been attracted to boys but some of those boys she has dated have been, sorry 'identified as' bi/gay/also dated boys and some wore make up. So not actually 'pansexual' but it sounds a bit cooler to the unshockable parental generation that "straight, but some of my ex boyfriends have been bi and/or worn make up/been a bit gender bending". Because that would also describe me but isn't very edgy because I'm now 43.

Polyamorous, to her/them, appears to mean exclusive, but not joined at the hip and will continue to have friends of the opposite sex and go out socially with friends of the opposite sex without your opposite sex partner but without there being a romantic/sexual element to it. Kind of like how I have always done things.

So. I think a lot of this 'identifying as' something is actually about being very 'normal' but finding a label to describe every aspect of you your, rather ordinary, idiosyncrasies.

It's just that all the adults seem to be really super keen to continue their facilitating and enabling by writing into law a whole generational game of Let's Pretend. Which also just happens to benefit some rather dodgy middle aged men and a whole group of men who hate women too.

Because not conforming strictly, or at all, to the narrowly prescriptive gender stereotypes associated with your birth sex does not mean you are actually the opposite birth sex born into the wrong body.

I also think that "I identify as..." rather than "I am..." makes it easier to change your mind at a later date. It's far easier to just 'identify as' something else than it is to say "I am not X anymore. Now I am Y."

@Devilishpyjamas

In homage to this post lower down the thread by @Hypermice

*Shon, if you’re reading...

MN doesn’t allow you to live in a little bubble like Twitter does, where you can block anyone who doesn’t agree with you and just amplify your own self love, like a randy budgie pecking a mirror."*

" I'm really sorry to admit I thought it would just be populated by the "boring mumsies" that I don't particularly get along with, just harking on about their little precious hybrids"

This is a regular theme, when MN is referred to in the media etc

Half the UK population is female, I think it is the case that most women end up having kids. The fact that "mum" conjures up images of boring women with no interest past their children for so many people, highlights just how sexist our society still is.

A budgie

Yep now Hadley's made her declaration I wonder if any other female columnists will?

Sali Hughes maybe?

@Devilishpyjamas

No that's how SF identities. We think SF is a budgie.

Oh and yes I went out with a lipstick wearing boy during 6th form in late 80’s. He was a bit of a cure Fan. We’re still friends now and he doesn’t wear lipstick anymore. happy days.

I love the fact that Hadley Freeman has had enough of trying to play it safe and has been throwing her hat fully into the ring recently. Always knew she was too intelligent to fall for the gender shit.

Who is he? Except another tedious self identifying female (yawn).

Welcome Vizard

Hello all. I've recently joined MN. It's so refreshing to read coherent arguments and views without hearing "transphobia ", "terfs" and so on. I attended Transgenderism and the War on Women recently, and met women that recommended MN. I've been surprised; I really didn't think it would be so diverse in the topics discussed. I'm really sorry to admit I thought it would just be populated by the "boring mumsies" that I don't particularly get along with, just harking on about their little precious hybrids. I've missed out. Totally. I've been craving company of intelligent, fiesty and humorous women and now I've found them!

I agree. I went to university in the early 90s and there were lots of straight boys (and gay boys) in makeup. Kurt Kobain was their role model. Nobody gave a fuck. Or actually there was plenty of that! anybody remember the James song "Laid"? "Dressed me up in women's clothes, messed around with gender roles, lined my eyes ans called me pretty" was about a male/female relationship afaik and was our mantra. Fun times.

Yep. It's easy to rationalize as, oh, we miss those days because we were younger then, but I think that it really was a more joyous time to be that age and what teens/twenties are dealing with now in terms of how het relationships are expected to work is pretty shit, comparatively speaking. The compulsive gendering of every single aspect of appearance or behavior has led us to the point where nobody can just be themselves, except the fetishists, who've figured out how to manipulate everyone else into allowing them to act out their fetish in public spaces while pretending that that's social justice. Regular old gender non-conformity gets you concerned questions about your pronouns, because god forbid a woman get a buzzcut or a man paint his nails.

I remember Caitlyn Jenner saying that, that now that he'd transitioned he could finally paint his nails, and I was just going...look, I know that men can paint their nails because I went out with some who did, and was friends with others. I've helped them do it! Their balls didn't shrivel up and fall off as a result, honest.

*Is it that these younger boys were born into all the blue/pink shit, girl/boy lego etc that became so prevalent after our generation?

I think so.

And the ELC pink globe...

We all knew that was wrong and complained about that because we didn't want our daughters to think only pink things were for them. I don't think any of us predicted that this would be the conclusion to it!*

God how depressing. I was on all the ELC Pink Globe abomination threads, not long after I joined MN when my eldest was a baby. You're right. We knew, instictively, it was wrong. We knew children should be free to be who they are, outside a rigid definition of gender roles that said girls needed to have a representation of the fucking world in their bedroooms that was fucking pink with unicorns and mermaids instead of elephants and whales. Now look where we are. Children that happen to conform to the rigid gender norms are fine but everyone else has to identify as something else instead of just being gay or non-gender typical. How sad what the marketing companies have done to a whole generation of people.

It does read in parts like a 'moderated' piece (so I'll continue buying the New Statesman instead of the Guardian) but still a very interesting article, thanks Hadley
LOJ will be apoplectic - pram empty, toys everywhere ...