Shon Fay smearing mumsnet on twitter.

Look I’m the least TRA person that’s ever walked the earth, however I worry about this narrative that men with genital surgery are somehow more women than men without.

I don't think the TIMs who keep their penis will rush into SRS surgery because feminists are making a distinction. The small minority who are catastrophically dysphoric will move ahead with surgery to ease distress and the large majority who are not dysphoric will carry on as usual bellowing into the ether about the glories of their ladydick.

I'm not sure it's tasteful or appropriate to talk about individuals and their SRS status. I can agree there.

But the general conversation needs to be had since there is a range of opinion about this, with a reasonably significant segment of women believing that TIM-sans-penis is acceptable in women's spaces but TIM-avec-penis is not.

I’m not going to be lectured to about female sexuality by someone socialised as a man with an inverted penis they are claiming is a vagina either.

Yes, fair enough. I just thought the article was extra creepy when you think about Paris's 'role' in sex as opposed to a woman's.

But yes, I do get your point.

Teacuphiccup, totally agree with you.

I’m not going to be lectured to about female sexuality by someone socialised as a man with an inverted penis they are claiming is a vagina either.

Look I’m the least TRA person that’s ever walked the earth, however I worry about this narrative that men with genital surgery are somehow more women than men without.
I worry that young confused men will rush into genital surgery because they feel it’s the only way to truly become a woman.
There isn’t a sliding scale of how much of a woman you are depending on how little of a penis you have left.

Having non medical genital surgery should never be encouraged and I think it’s cruel to pretend that there is a level of body modification where you become a woman.

Yes, genitals are apparently irrelevant and 'who cares what is between someone's legs'. That is until a TRA is pontificating about how it is transphobic not to want to give them a blow job because their penis is 'female'.

Or until Munroe Bergdorf is telling us that some women don't have vaginas.

Then suddenly it's oh so relevant.

It’s irrelevant whether they’ve had surgery.

I disagree actually. People like Paris Lees (who also still has a penis) writes porn soaked articles with a distinctly male flavour (pardon the pun) and claims that they are speaking for women. In this particular article they dismiss the sexual experiences of another female journalist, and then dive right in with their own, claiming that that is what women really want.

I will not be lectured about what constitutes good sex for a woman by someone who has a penis. Especially when a proportion of it has violent tendencies. Soz.

And this is from someone who is now lauded as a great trans voice, and is apparently so womanly that they appeared on the front cover of Vogue, penis and all, to celebrate 100 years of women getting the vote.

www.vice.com/en_uk/article/nnq44q/paris-lees-the-21-sexiest-things-about-sex-696

I actually feel quite sorry for SF having just watched their pinned tweet clip of their stand-up comedy. It's awful, the material is unoriginal and the delivery is flat. SF has zero charisma. Good on SF for feeling confident enough to give it a go, but it is cringey to watch.

It’s like ‘misgendering’. It’s normally nice to call people by the name they like. But when it’s a lie based on an attempt to colonise someone else’s life and space I reserve the right not to do it.

If TRAs don't want anyone to ask about their genital situation it would probably help if they stopped ordering women to suck their cocks when angry, and erased from the internet all evidence of Julia Serano performing slam poetry about his penis long after declaring himself a woman.

Coopting not copying.

It’s not irrelevant. If you claim to be a woman when you are a man I demand to know on what basis you say this.

The coyness around genital surgery is entirely fake. Obviously you wouldn’t ask a woman or a man about the state of their genitals unless there was something you needed to know about that. They are copying that coyness to cover up for the fact that most of the TRAs we hear anything from are all about the dick.

Identifying as a vegetarian while eating meat (someone's son's gf) was definitely the funniest bit to come out of this conversation.

(And nothing to do with Shon.)

I think grown adults can do whatever they like to their bodies, having surgery to your penis does not make you a woman and I don’t think we should be discussing a persons genitals like this.
It’s irrelevant whether they’ve had surgery.

Little Britain was prophetic, between that and Emily Howard.

Everyone is trying to label themselves to somehow stand out from the boring old "cishet" as it's now called

Yes, it's almost like people want to be able to say that they are oh so oppressed. It reminds me a bit of 'the only gay in the village' from Little Britain.

I don't believe Shon has had that particular gender reassignment surgery, pink.

Sadly, there is no making sense of it. Men can now be women (penis and all) just because they say so.

Maybe pink is simply curious to know whether a "woman" who suggests telling kids to "suck dick" has a dick of their own?

pink what does it matter? XY doesn’t become XX after surgery.