Shon Fay smearing mumsnet on twitter.

Same, Kittens - I also wonder what the goths of my youth are up to now. It seems like goth culture and GNC goth/emo men are still a thing though.

I would join in on twitter but I'm blocked by that Shon person

Wow just read That Vice article, it really made my skin crawl.

I worry about young people framing their idea of sex around that, I really do.

Il say it again if you think your body is for no more than objectification you are wrong on so many levels and when you are a bit older and maybe a bit wiser it will leave you feeling hollow that you viewed yourself so worthlessly. Have the sex you want as long as it's consensual it's all good but do not let anyone tell you what is "your sexy".

There was way too much spit roasting and male pleasure being paramount to actually truly reflect many if any women's stance on good sex.

I'm finding the views on this thread a complete eye opener for me. I need to get myself out into the real world to be part of this debate.

Sure, but not not really just "trying to lead your life" like my two trans friends whose twitter feeds consist of the odd post about sports, work etc. If you are making a living as a trans activist/blogger/writer/comedian/whatever you surely must have a thicker skin than the average anonymous person. Especially when you tweet multiple times a day about almost universally contensious issues and go out of your way to provoke and politicise your debate.

Having said that, LM is doing the same thing and definitely does not seem to be as well suited the role.

Shon - if you are reading this, I know how hard it is. I've been there and I understand gender dysphoria. I know the pain it causes and what it feels inside. I also know how you must feel reading all this stuff when you are trying to lead your life.

But....you've got to try and see the perspective of women on here who have valid concerns over the implications of self ID as well as the definitions of women. There's also a lot of attempts by trans activists to silence women trying to discuss their concerns.

I know it's easy to get defensive especially on social media and say you are just trying to lead your life and mean no harm. I don't think using your platform to target a group of women with concerns over what's happening - and especially with the impact on children - is going to help anyone and will only serve to create more barriers when bridges between the communities are needed.

It's very easy on social media to block views you don't agree with and to listen to your own echo chamber. But that doesn't make the issues go away.

The more you attack women on here, the more you show you don't understand.

I know you are probably reading this - but I say this as someone who has a very good idea of how you feel inside, just read some of the concerns. I know the language can be tough but try and think about the perspective of women on here.

I am a fucking constellation!

I knew it! Right on Shon. I so fucking am.

I'm going to be Orion. Betelgueuse is in Orion and Betelgueuse is fucking awesome.

Loving how people are now quoting the TRA tweets on their own twitter feeds now - very neat way to counter the attempts to shut women up by banning them and not allowing their comments to be read on twitter. Keep it up everyone.

I agre about Shon - has at least has been through university, can write lucidly and grammatically and seems a bit more on board with the democratic concept of debate.

Does Shon have a definition of 'man', as a matter of (very slight) interest?

I actually find I'm getting quite fond of Shon now.

Like wanting to indulge a spoiled child, rather than upset them. There are far worse than Shon out there, after all.

Oh my god, that is hilarious.

Nice one Shon. Snappy, and to the point. We'll use that instead of "adult human female" from now on...

'I'm not explaining it to the likes of you - I just know, so shut up'?

Also rape threats.

How do they not see how very male it is to issue rape threats to women?

This one who advocates physically attacking gender critical women as a form of pre-emptive self defence

So say I was at work and said, I'm not sure that it's a good idea for the GG not to tell parents if there are transgirls going on the trip with girls and bunking them in together

Then according to them, it would be OK for someoen to physically attack me. How far? A punch in the face? Knocked out? Broken bones? Stabbed?

It doesn't say, but given that it seems to be a response to the idea that gender critical women want to "exterminate" trans people (? who would actually believe this?) then I assume that they support murdering gender critical women.

I've seen a lot of death threats from TRAs so this isn't a surprise, what is a worry is that the threats are left around in a way they would not be against another group. But then I suppose men killing women who "step out of line" or "wind them up" is a normal thing.

I think there's stubborn and intolerant words from both sides, to be fair.

Nah. Don’t buy that.

One side is saying ‘I’m concerned about the effect this will have on women’s rights, can we please discuss this in a public debate before we change the law?’

The other side is saying ‘die in a fire TERFs/enjoy your erasure women/suck my dick lesbians’ and other charming examples of vitriol.

The intolerance here is not coming from worried women and feminists. It’s coming from the TRA activists.

And notably, all the physical violence is too (speakers corner incident for example.)

Wait, when did Mumsnet become Fox News?

Not believing that humans can change sex isn't the same as threatening to kill people who don't believe that humans can change sex. Hope that makes things a bit clearer.

I think there's stubborn and intolerant words from both sides, to be fair.

Ah, the famous Donald Trump moral equivalence

Or saying 'women don't have dicks'. That this has become a statement of 'hate and transphobia' shows how ridiculous the whole thing is.

And the rape fantasies all over the internet are disturbing as well.

It seems that for a fair number of transitioners it's all wrapped up in sex, and a very male view of sex at that.