I WILL tell my daughter to moderate her behaviour...

PinguDance
You might want to take a look at the details of today's rape case and the how many of the Warboys victims were treated by the police? That is what people are talking about.

is upbringing influential enough to prevent these people existing? I don't think it is.

Teen I agree. Not following the crowd is a really important lesson (for girls as well).

Also, that being a macho hard man isn't particularly a good thing and that showing emotions and being kind aren't signs of weakness.

She could always wear a thong to avoid VPL rather than wear no pants - not sure where that one came from, is it common to do that?

The 'reputation' stuff seems a bit old fashioned to me, I don't think I've heard anyone refer to a woman's 'reputation' as an adult. Surely your daughter can have sex with as many men as she likes but it'd be a good idea to make sure they aren't dickheads first and that she wants to do it?

sounds like you know a lot of shit men/boys though - and I guess it depends how you approach telling her all this, cos at the end of the day much of avoiding all this is about self respect and having decent friends. Don't make breaking all these 'rules' seem super tempting!

I have a boy of 13, with his first 'girl' friend (she is keen to hold his hand and peck him on the cheek, he is less so) but both kids are physically about 17 (ie bodies hormones way ahead of emotions/life experience).
I did the Pants rule with him when younger and the Tea Consent rules.
I try to talk to him too (tho he hates it :)
I have a girl of 10. Still a tomboy atm. But I know what the world is for girls.
I hope I will teach both equally to value their bodies and emotions, and other peoples too. Also to dress mindfully, stay in well lit areas/with friends, to walk away / report when needed.

we didn't make it a police matter; he wouldn't let me. You can imagine the conversation cant you?

luckily the pic only got distributed to a few phones and not to social media, thank god.

I think boys also need to be taught to call out the behaviour of other boys. So it becomes as socially unacceptable to be disrespectful of women/girls as e.g. drink driving

This! Only men can change rape culture. Women can only complain and hope that men listen.

YY TeenTimesTwo

I sat to my dds that if that if they can’t have respect for themselves then, nobody else will respect them

How is getting drunk (your example of what you will teach your DD not to do) not having respect for yourself?

Men get drunk. They respect themselves.

I think boys also need to be taught to call out the behaviour of other boys. So it becomes as socially unacceptable to be disrespectful of women/girls as e.g. drink driving.

After the party, the victim said the following:

Thing is I would report it if I knew they would get done. But they won’t. And that’s unnecessary stress for me. It’s also humiliating

It will be my word against theirs, not like they have cctv in their house and because there’s more of them and they’ll all have the same fabricated story about me being some slut who was up for it.

How right she was.

I have three boys who are still small. Those with older boys, how can I make sure they respect boundaries and are respectful etc. they're going to be getting different messages from society, any advice?

Very powerful OP. I agree with everyone and share your rage.

We have to teach our daughters to protect themselves and our sons not to be like those appalling rugby players - there is no alternative.

There is a current toxic narrative that feeds the contempt that too many men have for women. Be it the results of today's court case, the fact that women victims had to go back to court to get Warboys kept in prison, the fact that women are now lectured by (mainly ) men that our biology must be hidden and unspoken as it is so disgusting that it offends others. Pornography is unchecked , our boundaries are violated and our political parties consider women's very legal identity of such little importance it can be legally shared with any man who fancies it - no matter how disgusting a pervert that they are.

I know that it is not all men - but currently the misogynists are holding the floor .

Ive had a couple of friends who date-rapey/abusive men made a bee-line for.

what they had in common was being people pleasers and being conditioned to always be nice and polite.

girls are taught that they must be accomodating. Bad men pick this out as a desirable chatacteristic in a potential victim

DH and I are the parents of a DD and a DS. We are trying to make sure both DC grow up respecting all people irrespective of sex, gender, creed or colour. We teach them both equality, safety and respect. They have both been taught cooking, cleaning, money matters, DIY etc etc etc.
DD is better at DIY than her DF or her DS thanks to her DGF also embracing equality. DS is a competent cook. They both seem to have the self respect and confidence needed to make the right choices and avoid certain situations. DH and I can only hope.

Looking at crime figures, how many men are the perpetrators and the victims of violence; the number of men in prisons, etc... I would say it is pretty sensible to continue to educate our daughters to 'moderate' their behavior because they seem to be doing pretty well in terms of behavior.

It seems that boys need to be taught the same way instead of feeling they are safer because they are physically stronger.

A huge number of sexual assaults happen when the victim is drunk. Girls need to be educated about not getting so drunk they don’t know what they’re doing and boys taught that if a girl is so drunk she can’t give consent, then it is not ok to have sex.
I sat to my dds that if that if they can’t have respect for themselves then, nobody else will respect them.

If all girls turned inwards stuck with other girls and refused to engage with or attend parties with men like that, then what would they do?

But how are you supposed to know you're at a party with rapists until it happens?

Those whatsapp messages show a hideous contempt for women and it's just seen as banter, as "boys will be boys". I can't imagine how I would feel if I found out my DS ever spoke like that about women.

For anyone wondering, this seems to be a straightforward account of the girl's perspective: www.newsletter.co.uk/news/paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-trial-graphic-details-of-alleged-attack-outlined-in-court-1-8355827

I know who I believe. They're disgusting pigs, the lot of them.

That Irish case is like a perfect example of toxic masculinity.

If my son turned out like that I would genuinely throw up.

its not only girls who have to keep themselves safe though is it?
Speaking as a parent of B/G twins, in fact it was the boy who was plied with drink and then forced to give someone a blowjob while someone else filmed it and distributed the image.
Just saying.

If all girls turned inwards stuck with other girls and refused to engage with or attend parties with men like that, then what would they do?

Surely both girls and boys should be refusing to associate with arseholes like that? Even more so the boys! It's our sons we should be teaching about acceptable male behaviour; they should be the ones telling other men that they won't accept their behaviour and they are not welcome, not just the girls. Then what would they do!?!