I WILL tell my daughter to moderate her behaviour...

It is the random men

The fact rape is accepted just as domestic violence is accepted just as porn is accepted

Rugby culture is rape culture

But lorelai you’re implying she was raped because of her behaviour, so you are victim blaming. She was raped because she was raped by an evil person.

This is what I've been telling my little sister for years. She's been raped twice and still won't compromise her ideals - she wears short skirts, gets incredibly drunk and meets up with random men... I'm not victim blaming at all, but I just wish she'd make some changes to make herself safer.

nottakenusername thank you for your posts.

I was up all last night thinking about the case.

I was thinking about the victim.

I was thinking of her strength in reporting that Barrister and I was thinking of her family.

I was thinking how she has had her anonymity breached. I was thinking about how her body was explicitly dissected as though she was a mere object without feelings or injuries.

I was thinking of my children and how I stop them becoming misogynistic.

I was thinking of how my sons love running with the ball, the team aspect, bouncing around feeling they are strong and powerful already. Has it already started? Do they already think they are superior?

Would they join the first 15? Would they drink and go to parties and would they carry out despicable acts - anyone remember Chris Hemming speaking about rugby culture and one time he was under peer pressure to cover the next female who entered the bar area with beer and he did that. He poured beer over an unsuspecting women.

It had to be pointed out to him that this was assault

Ulster Rugby has a rape culture.

I am interested in how these men will be treated by their rugby teams.

Will they just reinforce their rape culture by welcoming them back with open arms? Will these players you know the ones who speak about spit roasting and whores be able to represent their country?

I saw last night how some rugby players were on twitter saying that it is great news that they were found not guilty. They were celebrating.

Yep I don't want to go near rugby again and I never thought I would say t - I actually love the game too but not at the expense of women. Not at the expense of bringing up my boys to not give a flying fuck. Not at the expense of my sons not being able to deal with their emotions or have positive relationships.

I don't want my children to think they can rape. I don't want them to dehumanise a woman and overpower her and then think it is fine to brag about it and then hide / delete messages when the Police are involved.

I don't want them to think I would ever go to court and support them if they did this.

I don't want them to think that there mummy and daddy would cover their legal fees if they spoke about women as whores and spit roasting.

I

I think I get what wordtothewise is saying and I don't see that it's victim blaming any more than the advice to wear more modest clothing and not have too many sexual partners.

In fact, it's advice I would be more comfortable giving to my 19 year old because it shifts the responsibility from her (don't go out without underwear - a jury would jump on that. Don't have too many sexual partners - a jury would dismiss you as a slut) to the men. Be wary of arrogance and status - it's likely to make someone feel above the law, is a message she's more likely to take on board. Especially when the evidence suggests that it actually does make men legally untouchable.

Those of us who are the parents of boys really need to step up. Sorry if people don’t want to hear this, but we do.

Thank you for acknowledging this. I’ve just listened to womens hours with another feature about how common upskiriting is. How is this happening? What is going wrong with the upbringing of boys if this is so common place that teachers say they simply can’t tackle harassment of girls in schools as if they did they’d do nothing else?
I went to 3 large secondary schools in different areas, very different demographics and I can honestly say 15/20 years ago if any boy had even thought of behaving in a harassing manner they’d have had a ton of shit come down upon them. It just wasn’t done and it wasn’t a problem. We had very little sex segregation, mixed swimming lessons etc and none of my female peers remember any harassment at this age. I hope by the time my dd is a teen there will have been a massive backlash and I won’t have to tell her to be on guard against men constantly. How exhausting to have to live like that.

You see, Wordtothewise’s post perfectly demonstrates the patriarchal “damned if do ...” bullshit.

If women are wary of men and avoid getting drunk around them then they are told “Not all men are like that, you man-hating feminist”. However if they trust men and then something bad happens then they are told “well what do you expect? They are men and that’s what they’re like!”

Seriously can’t win.

I'm making the point that the girls are only there because of the men's status

What? So they deserve what’s coming to them do they?

Best to look at a society which offers lots of opportunities for boys who are physically fit and talented but underfunds girls’ and women’s sports.

Besides you don’t know why this girl went to that party. My guess is that she went because her friends went. All youngsters flock around the popular people. I’m sure there were quite a few lads there who jumped at the chance to enhance their status by hanging out with the rugby players.

Yet it’s only the girls that are to blame and held to moral standards that boys are not. And if they fail then they’re seen as not worthy of respect.

Such double standards.

I have one of each. My DS (11) is already getting lots of messages about consent, behaviour, respect.
I hope to encourage him to avoid porn when the time comes.

My DD is also told she is the boss of her body and learns about consent, behaviour and respect.

I want to give them a shield of protection somehow!

*why men have no respect for them.

I'm making the point that the girls are only there because of the men's status. They have no interest in rugby or the men themselves. You might say infact they have no respect for men beyond what they can get from them.

All men know this goes on, this is why you get tropes about alpha men and women who won't look twice at the same men if it weren't for their status.

Consider why the young girls are hanging about these sorts of wankers and you see why men have respect for them.

" They know these men are cunts and yet women flock to them because of their status. It breeds misogyny."
Victim blaming and using cunt as a term of abuse doesn't help either.

Boys learn how to treat women by example. That might be on TV, in books or through porn.

But it is also in our homes. They watch the relationship between their mother and father and they learn from it.

As good parents to boys and girls we need to set the very best example. That means not accepting any treatment from the men in your life that is anything less than respectful.

Men who talk about their wives in a disrespectful way (even if they think it's a joke) are actually committing child abuse. They are teaching boys how to be future abusers.

This can be as small as making jokes about Mum's rubbish driving or cooking or cleaning, talking about how Mum is so weak she needs dad to look after her, doing all the "manly" things around the house and leaving the housework to Mum and right through to obvious abuse and violence.

If your relationship is not 100% equal and you are not sure your OH is setting the example you want, then maybe that's the place to start.

Tell your daughter not to hang around VIP areas of nightclubs hoping to meet men she wouldn't look twice at if they were painters and decorators.

The men who I can quite believe raped this girl will have women flinging themselves at them on a weekly basis. They know it's because of their status. Other men know this too. They regard such women as whores. The prosecution played to this, its an easy win.

Young men see this female behaviour all around them and are expected to respect it. They don't. They know these men are cunts and yet women flock to them because of their status. It breeds misogyny.

You don't see men behaving this way around successful women.

I need to think about the rugby thing. My first thought was it wasn't fair. But my second thought was about rugby culture and male entitlement and the way rugby players at my children's schools are regarded and regard themselves. And the whole thing about "rugby players never arguing with the ref" ethos which gives them an automatic position on the moral high ground and more leeway when it comes to traditional rugby tour "high jinks" . Hmm. Must think more.

Thank you for that link upstartcow that is positive to read.

Oh and one other thing I am going to take my sons to attend a rape trial if at all possible and make them sit through it or let them read the transcripts.

I attended one when I was at uni, where a teenager was raped.

Trigger-warning.

The rapist broke into her home while her parents were upstairs sleeping and she had a hellish ordeal. Nevertheless her character was put on trial and I decided there and then that I would probably never report rape.

It was however made clear to me there and then that women and children are raped and blamed for

As a mother to young boys who love rugby I am not going to let them play rugby.
They are young enough that I can move them away from it and fill that space with an activity that does not demean women and entitle men.

I am never ever going to another rugby match.

I will write to the rugby unions if these players are allowed to play again.

The entitled culture of rugby was evident in this trial.

Our children are going to keep respecting women.

I am going to get my kids to learn karate so they can protect their female friends and themselves.

I am just remembering how my husband would always make sure everyone of my female friends were escorted home safely no matter what time and no matter how far away they lived. My children are going to do that.

They are going to stand up to dickheads and they are going to be well over six feet.

I am going to explain to them just how sick
Porn is.

I am going to monitor who they speak and exchange messages with friends.

Mother's of sons,

I dunno.

(Well I do).

There has been a No Means No campaign running for a few years in Kenya, and it has reduced rape by 50% among young people. It teaches self defence to girls, and it teaches about consent to boys.
apolitical.co/solution_article/kenyas-self-defence-classes-halting-rape-pandemic-tracks/

If you have daughters, take them to Judo and Akido to learn self defence. They don't rely on physical strength in the same way some martial arts do.