Ulster Rugby Rape Trial - Not guilty to all charges

As I pointed out upthread, given that the test for finding someone guilty of rape is that the jury must think, beyond reasonable doubt, that the defendant did not have a reasonable belief that the woman consented, believing the woman's account of what happened is quite compatible with accepting that the court reached a not guilty verdict.

Exactly. As I said on the other thread, it's perfectly possible to believe both him and her, because they could both be telling their truth. And that would, in NI law, make him not guilty, given that for it to be rape he'd need to have had no reasonable belief she consented. So this could theoretically be what the jury thought.

Marvellous idea of Jackson's to get this before a court making a decision on the balance of probabilities anyway. That couldn't possibly go wrong for him.

Re what school you go to. I'm probably older than most of you but you used to ask to try and ascertain if you were Protestant or Catholic. This isn't so reliable any more though.

I believe her.

As I pointed out upthread, given that the test for finding someone guilty of rape is that the jury must think, beyond reasonable doubt, that the defendant did not have a reasonable belief that the woman consented, believing the woman's account of what happened is quite compatible with accepting that the court reached a not guilty verdict.

So... I believe her.

I believe her

Not in the UK, not in a place with an extradition treaty. Meh

Erm individuals are allowed to believe the woman and state that publically surely?

Is it a sort of arm of the "my truth is whatever I say it is and disagreeing with it is literal violence"?

ie he identifies as a "wronged man" and a "victim" and anyone who disagrees with him is guilty of a criminal act?

I love the fact that #suemepaddy & #ibelieveher are trending - gives me (a little) faith in humanity.

I really hope that clubs recognise how much into disrepute they will bring them given the vile what's app messages & any self respecting rugby fan stays far away from that.

If Olding has any sense he'll go somewhere far away from Jackson.

And it does look like Olding has some sense......

They are welcome to them. It would be interesting to see if there would be public objection to them going to an English club; there is no way they would be accepted by any Irish club.

If Olding has any sense he'll go somewhere far away from Jackson.

Yes I had heard rumours of this before the trial concluded. Yuck.

www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/french-and-british-clubs-make-move-to-sign-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-36763697.html

I wonder which clubs these are.

Exactly Xenophile.

If the lawyer is peddling out all the rape myths under the sun (why didn't she scream etc) then what chance do the jury have (who probably already have plenty of these rape myths themselves).

The worst part is the witness who walked in on them. I think that did the most damage. She said she walked in on a threesome. At first glance, you wouldn't be able to tell rape from sex.

Most rape is by someone you know. Most rapes have you either frozen in shock, or trying to block out what's happening. Most rapes, with a fleeting glance, would look like sex and not rape.

After all, rape is supposed to be a man holding a woman down with some sort of weapon and the woman is supposed to be screaming 'get off me!!'

So sad for our world right now. The question is never 'did these men rape' but 'is this woman lying'.

This whole 'suing' thing is ridiculous and shows the arrogance of these men. What Paddy Jackson should be doing now is thanking his lucky stars that he wasn't found guilty, think about his despicable behaviour and lay low. But no......

It reminds me of Ched Evans after he was acquitted talking about how he was going to go into schools and educate boys there about 'the risks of too much alcohol', when what he should have been doing is fucking off to the far side of fuck.

To quote someone or other:

Come at me bro.

I believe her isn't defamatory, it's a statement of opinion which doesn't mention the precious fucking rugger buggers. What they think, say, feel or believe is immaterial, just for a change, I'm focussing on what she said.

It is entirely reasonable to believe her wholeheartedly, while understanding that due to the evidential standards of the criminal courts, the jury acquitted because they had reasonable doubt.

For just retweeting #IBelieveHer

zibbidoo that makes sense thanks.

In fact, I don’t even know if the police told UR they were serious allegations or if that was what UR inferred from the fact the police at turned up at their place of work telling them to get to a station immediately.

I assume it was because when the police went to arrest PJ and co at home they weren’t there (they were already out eating lunch and not discussing the nights events) so they went to their employer to try and track them down. Both PJ and SO got their calls to go to the police station within minutes of each other whilst they were out getting food. I’m guessing that’s because the police were there with Ulster rugby at that very moment trying to track them down. Also UR weren’t informed of the nature of allegations other than that they were very serious.

Why were Ulster Rugby/KIngspan told about the allegations before the police had contacted Jackson? Did they get an advance heads up from the PSNI? Is that legal?

Xpost!

Kingspan refers to the Kingspan stadium which is the home ground of the Ulster rugby team. It’s who PJ and co all answer to so totally normal that they would be involved from the start.

treaclesoda - posts sent at the same time! I agree - thanks for correction.

Correction: 'Kingspan' sending messages to PJ may be Kingspan Stadium, rather than Kingspan corporate bodies. But still - none of this looks great for sponsors.

I think in that context Kingspan maybe just means Ulster Rugby. Kingspan is the name of Ravenhill Stadium and the HQ of Ulster Rugby.