Ulster Rugby Rape Trial - Not guilty to all charges

Plenty of men do celebrate rape - gang rape is a thing and rape porn is a thing and women and girls (and men and boys) are raped all over the world every day and the media churns out glossy dramas showing women (young attractive) being sexually violated and so on and so on.

Dukes I wasn't actually attacking you. It was just a statement.

"PatriarchyPersonified Wed 28-Mar-18 21:13:45
Dukes

Speaking as a man I don't think the 'man gang' are going to be 'raising a glass' any time soon.

The whole thing is pretty depressing, no matter which way you look at it.

Men don't celebrate rape or rape accusations, regardless of what you may think."

It was box who said it

"boxthefox Wed 28-Mar-18 20:47:47
Give it two weeks and it will be all forgotten. Ulster Rugby will stand by them and maybe raise a glass or two to the former accused who are now not guilty.

That is the man pack."

Why don't you respond to poeple who make comments, rather than people who react to them, hmm?

Are you asking from a structural/institutional/judicial perspective Box ?

boxthefox what would you do.? Are you posting to tell all women to accept sexual violence and rape as our lot?
Exactly what is your point?

Rape only seems to happen if there is injury. Would that be correct or not.

Anne - even aside from passing judgement on the outcome of the trial. I think Elen's point could also be read purely from the point of view of the way in which the system is loaded against "potential" victims - we've really not come a long way (as a society) from depressing "she was drunk" "she had a mini skirt on" "she was giving me mixed signals" have we? In that environment you can well imagine a sense of entitlement in some men (not all) being emboldened.

@anneoneill rape happens whether there is proof or not

hashtags are ridiculous imv.

Jump on the bandwagon and feel great but do nothing. Sorry if that offends, but it is so easy to do without much information.

Join the herd.

Please can someone point me to where the rally details are?

I think the not proven verdict is a great idea. Not guilty is so misleading.

Does anyone think there is any merit in emailing Ulster rugby to reinforce to them our disgust if they were taken back in the team?

I'm somewhat heartened by the outcry over the verdict & really hope there is momentum here for at least some small change in this out of date system

Except rape hasn't happened here Elen. Unless you have proof?

I did not sit through the trial. I have to believe these people are innocent of the crime they are charged with. They may well have acted in a way that leaves them open to other court cases that are on balance of probabilities.

The reason I say I have to believe it is what happens if we just go on instinct/what is in the media. if I get caught up in something and wrongly charged but acquitted by jury I would really want "innocent until proven guilty" to mean something to the rest of the world. This is a really hard and public case, but innocence matters, maybe a lot more to average people who need to get jobs and live with other people in a community.

Again anyone could have done dreadful things that don't pass the hard test of beyond reasonable doubt and could be in civil court. I also believe that the crime of rape and potential changes should be looked at.

I'm a criminal lawyer in Scotland and we have the 3 verdicts, guilty, not guilty and not proven. There are many who want to remove not proven as an option. It's not seen as a particularly helpful verdict, more of a 'fallback' if a jury just can't decide or think the accused probably did it but just can't make the evidence add up. It has the same effect as a not guilty verdict though.

This is the reason rape happens. Men are shown quite clearly that there are usually no consequences. Legal or otherwise.
The men who rape, do so primarily because they can.

So let us say we reconvene in one month here and see what happens?

Nothing I would say. It will all be forgotten and on we go. The judicially innocent men will find a way too. I hope the woman will also, but I reckon she is not part of Rugby Ireland either.

I believe her 💐

I believe her.

Dukes

Speaking as a man I don't think the 'man gang' are going to be 'raising a glass' any time soon.

The whole thing is pretty depressing, no matter which way you look at it.

Men don't celebrate rape or rape accusations, regardless of what you may think.

Oh I am getting a lot of negatories now. Not that I mind, a reaction is a good thing.

Imagine how the girl at the centre of this feels now. It is over for her unless she takes a civil action.

Some people can be so judgmental of everyone. And on it goes. We are sisters or so I thought, but anything out side of the received wisdom is just rubbished.

Knee jerk reactions will not help us in our cause.

The thing about character witnesses really pissed me off. The defence barristers kept saying that it wasn't a court of morals or celebrity or personality. And then they were producing people to say what lovely young men they are. So which is it? Is it about their character or is it not?

Gang not hang.

Ched Evans hasn't been forgotten, nor lots of others.

This business about the men hang raising a glass to their mates is vile. And accurate, I'm sure.

*SUFTUM obviously. Wonder if I could come up with a new acronym.
Did Rory Best ever act as character witness does anyone know? I followed most of the trial and think he had the good sense to be off winning the 6N rather than standing up telling the court what lovely, upstanding, wholesome, honest "legends" that lot were, but I didn't read all of the coverage. Did anyone do character witness and what did they say?