Ulster Rugby Rape Trial - Not guilty to all charges

gluteus
The total lack of empathy to women these stories bring up is breathtaking.
Men honestly seem to think women are so vindictive they would have an intimate medical examination, discuss all the details in excruciating detail with stranger's, get ripped to shreds by a barrister, just for "revenge" (that is very unlikely to happen anyway as most men get off).
It's so totally depressing.

CarrotyO I seen this yesterday. I don’t disagree with your post but I think it is important we are strong in the facts and figures we quote as we try to affect change. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3207578-Rape-attrition-rate-vs-conviction-rate

I'm surprised there is anyone convicted of rape

Too true. Here's some of my stories.

A friend of mine (years ago) came home from a night out, crying. She said she'd been raped. We all consoled her, and made her a cup of tea, and said she should call the police. She said no. No one would believe her. She wasn't credible.

Her reasons were that she'd been drinking. She slept with lots of men anyway (consensually), and that as she was in social care, she was the wrong type of victim. So she left it. And moved on.

I had an incident at a house that I voluntarily went back to. I had a drink, and then don't remember being in control after that. I don't want to go into details. But there were 2 men. And passed around like meat is an apt description. If anyone had walked in, they would have seen a 'threesome'. But that was not the case.

I did nothing. Because I chose to go back there. There were no witnesses. I could not prove anything.

Rape via my ex, I never did anything. How can you prove a boyfriend raped you? His word, your word.

Rape in a car with a 'friend'. I bled very very badly. I was only 16, so I didn't really understand what had happened. I did confide in another friend, and then they told an adult. But as I was already starting to be a 'prick tease' dressing in short skirts etc, then I had really brought that on myself, and they told me that it was 'sex gone wrong', not rape.

No witnesses, his word, my word. He was nearly 30.

My friend, (who I've spoken about before on these threads) was raped and beaten by a stranger. There were witnesses. There was evidence. STILL she had to go to trial. Her sexual history dragged up. How much did she drink, what was she wearing. 'Luckily' she never 'slept around' and she made a good credible witness.

Her rapist got 8 years (out sooner).

So, unless it's stranger rape, and violent, and you have witnesses, and plenty of evidence, I wouldn't put myself through it.

And men will continue to get away with it.

I don't know what the answer is. But I know that anyone who puts themselves through a trial and the 18 months to get to trial, and the hatred and vitriol women experience for 'crying rape', is probably telling the truth. There will be a teeny tiny minority who are not well, and make a false accusation. But then that is true of any crime.

For those of us who couldn't go through with it and those that did

All the rape myths are trotted out by the barristers.

As the defence lawyer claimed in this case (this is not quite verbatim)- it wasn't as if she was in a dark, alley, gagged and bound - she was in a house with 8 adults with paper thin walls (as you have seen with your own eyes) sound travels, she could have screamed the house down.

One of the other defence barristers said there were "very middle class" young women downstairs who would not have tolerated a rape going on upstairs.

I think the evidence from Dara, who looked into the bedroom and saw the complainant turn her head away and not indicate any sign of distress was pretty damning for most people I have discussed it with. But, it makes sense to me that you would do that - you don't want anyone else to witness your humiliation. It's not logical but it is what you might do.

My friend was raped at a house party in a bedroom - someone came in to the room and she pulled the cover over her head rather than beg for help, she didn't scream- she even had a coffee the next morning - she was traumatised and shocked and not behaving at all rationally. Why can people not accept the "frozen", Prey animal behaviour theory?? The guilt of not screaming and fighting like you imagine you would stays and replays over and over with the victims forever.

In other words, do you have the courage to admit that what you really want is a system where a females testimony is all that is required to convict a man ?
No-one wants that. And that is very very far from what currently happens so not likely to ever be the case.

I want a system where the complainant isn't put on trial. I think rape myths should be banned as a defence (So use of phrases like "cry rape", "act like the perfect rape victim", "regretted it later")
In fact ideally I would like it for the defence not to be able to suggest the complainant is lying without evidence of such. I.e. bad character evidence or witnesses suggesting she regretted it. Maybe the same rules of hearsay should apply to the complainant as the defendant if they are going to be in the box for 8 days.

I would like the "reasonable belief" clause scrapped as I don't think the belief of the offender is relevant. If he's not sure he has consent he should keep his penis in his pants.

We need a public inquiry into rape, victims are being traumatised by the judicial system. With so few prosecutions rape is effectively legal and men know that. If rape laws are only producing a conviction rate of 7% then clearly the law needs to change.

Sorry that happened to you Ereshkigal.

There are so many rape and abuse situations where I simply cannot see how you could ever get a prosecution. That's what is so infuriating here. There is so much evidence. It is so disheartening. Understatement.

Even injuries mean nothing.

Many people who have done jury service probably share my fear of seeing the system in action. People's reasoning is scary. Combine that with rape myths and I have no faith in the system in rape trials.

Sorry @Ereshkigal (flowers)

So many men are incapable of recognising women's bodily autonomy and boundaries. Our pain and discomfort barely registers with them.

Did anyone bother to ask the men what indication she had given she was consenting? Why are the men who inflict injuries not grilled on their thought processes and behaviours regarding consent? Ok so apparently they are so warped and confused by this pornsick culture that they "presume" a woman they have just met is up for sex with them - no conversation necessary to determine this - but did she consent to sex acts so rough they made her bleed for 24 hours?

Why are these men not charged with ABH? Even if she had consented to sex that doesn't give them the right to inflict internal injuries on her does it?

It seems to me no matter what kind of evidence the prosecution can produce the defence will always have some rediculous excuse. Like the woman liked rough sex if there is bleeding and bruises. If there is film of him having sex with her unconscious she consented to it before she went unconscious. I'm surprised there is anyone convicted of rape

I got raped in a shared house, with other men living there who probably would have helped me if they'd known. I could not scream. I was paralysed. Why is this so hard to understand? I had gone back there voluntarily. I had stayed up and chatted to his housemates. I had consensual PIV sex with a condom. He anally raped me the morning after without a condom.

Ladies, please.

We all know the code. If we want sex with multiple men, we go and 'collect our bag from the bedroom'

Everyone knows that real rape is from a stranger, with a knife, in a bush, and with a church going teetotal, conservative dressing virgin

Ikr. To think that I don't share the view that being in an enclosed space with a male automatically means I should be open to being violently penetrated by him.

CarrotyO that’s obviously made up. Everyone knows that walking into a bedroom in a house party is code for “I’m up for anything with anyone - multiples welcome!”

@CarrotyO imagine - being able to walk around bedrooms without having to have sex with multiple men!

One time I got drunk on a night out with friends and went back to an after party in a different part of town. I was so drunk I put my bag down in one room and then forgot where I'd left it. I had to search a few rooms to find it and it turns out I'd left it in a bedroom. I collected it, ordered a taxi and went home. There were several men there and none of them raped me. True story.

Angelsoul2k15uk
confuddledconfuddle I’m male

You appear to have absolutely no idea of how consent works. I will make it even more simple. I had lots of casual sex when I was young. One night I went home with a beautiful man I had just met. I was in his bed, naked , he had an erection and I decided I didn't want to have sex.

Do you know what he did? He stopped, gave me a hug and told me it was far too late to walk home and I might as well stay. We went to sleep and in the morning he made me breakfast. He understood what consent means.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43595049

"Yet apparently her facebook's full of naughty photo's and video's of herself? When she consents she doesn't generally seem to care who sees what? But now she's shy all of a sudden?"

^Sorry I forgot the face, I was trying to point how how contradictory people are being. She was a "dirty slut", but she was terrified of being caught being slutty?

Sorry I will reword my post

I had guessed but just shot of a post - I do apologise - but the sentiment still stands

So in you case gay or straight?

Cremlin last weekend you had a 1 nightstand - these two guys heard about it. You smiled at them walking past. They knew you were up for the craic last weekend so followed you into the toilets and did as they pleased. You did it last weekend sure and you did lead them on smiling at them.

If you are straight :

You touched another male on the arm, patted him on the back, that's a sign you want to be with them - right? That's what they argued in this case! So why shouldn't they follow you and have sex - after all you lead the way to the toilets.

See it's irrelevant what you did before hand - the outcome is the same! You had non consensual sex!

tootsweet30 You have a good day. God bless all. Goodbye

In other words, do you have the courage to admit that what you really want is a system where a females testimony is all that is required to convict a man ?

Nah you just like it rough.

Like the woman and her bruises and her 1cm torn vagina in this case I assume.