Being wary of men because of your experience of male violence

Everything everyone says I agree with so much. I have learned to shut down any interest in listening to men or talking to them as I go about my day. I don't want to have anything to do with them except in a professional capacity. I have zero interest. But women - I am drawn to them and interested in their lives and their experiences.

The shark cage has really disturbed me.
This bit
"I let women know that by always putting
others’ needs and feelings before their
own they have been behaving in a
‘selfless’ way. Over time this means
they become disconnected from their
own wants, needs, and feelings with
the result that they feel they don’t
know who they are. They become
‘self–less”, and this feeling is often
associated with depression."
Really resonates

Yes a great post op. And for me the worst thing is having to open my own daughters eyes to it. How? When? How do you do so without ruining their beautiful innocence. My dd1 moved to London for uni from our rural village where she was fairly sheltered. I have to try not to panic about the dangers she faces whilst simultaneously arming her with enough savvy to keep herself as safe as she can. To an extent I have to let her get on with it and I feel powerless. By far the toughest part of parenthood for me personally so far.

Yes another thanks for posting the article about the Shark Cage. Very good.

Great thread. I think it’s important that we speak about our experiences with this. And yes, it’s all women. I’ve had threats of violence, violence, emotional and sexual abuse in my life. And I’m very wary of men. I take all of the precautions mentioned here by other women. Half the time we don’t even realise we are doing this stuff, but it all takes mental energy we could be better putting to use elsewhere if we didn’t have to live with this. We are right to be scared though - the danger is very real.

WhereYouLeftIt at 23.09 posted a link to the concept of the Shark Cage. What a brilliant article. I urge you all to read it.

Good post OP.

I remember that thread The Dowager

Yes to being prey and being wary and I have a few good male friends and a much loved son.

Being wary of men as the result of past male violence or aggression isn't unreasonable, selfish, or whatever other nonsense the person currently trying to shame you into shutting up and abandoning your boundaries is trying to push on you. It's basic pattern recognition. All women know that male predators exist, and all take precautions of some kind to avoid them. What the precautions are can vary a lot, but they're there.

This is the best piece of writing I've ever seen about male violence, particularly sexual violence, and how women deal with the constant threat of it. If you have time read the comments - not only are you not alone, or even unusual, you're the norm, and the "not all men!" people are drowning in cognitive dissonance. NAMALT-ing is a coping mechanism in that case, and not a particularly healthy one. Eyes wide open awareness is smarter and less emotionally taxing.

kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

How can they even have the balls to minimise it, when they themselves, if their girlfriend or daughter were going out for the night, would be giving them all the advice - the advice we've been given all our lives, that clearly frames us a prey!

yes. I've only ever been subject to very low level stuff, but am still wary, always, always.

I never engage with a man unless I know him, would never chat to a stranger, never exchange friendly pleasantries with the man working at the garage (I go there all the time, what if he gets the wrong idea?).

I'm actually a pretty friendly, chatty person. But only with women, It's safer that way.

Yes also with you golden
It's not even just the violent predatory behaviour that gets me. It's the fact that so many men will lie and manipulate to get sex and see nothing wrong with that. So i never know if a man is being friendly because he's nice, or because he wants a shag and at some point in the future there is going to be an awkward or scary conversation.

That's fucking unbelieveable.

There's a fucking reason.

He gets it! OMG some bloke gets it. Yay. Throw a parade. Oh, fuck, he's a predator too. www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-10/hbo-removes-louis-c-k-concerts-says-he-won-t-appear-on-show

Luckily I'm old enough, pissed off enough, wary enough and married enough to ward off 99% of it now. But I remember being 20, blonde and alone. Vividly.

A frightening situation occurred in my life when I was in my early 20s. I had a longish journey to make on public transport and my bus was at 06:20. I had to walk about a mile past woodland and through a deserted industrial estate to get to the bus stop. There was no other option for me, I had to do it to get to my training placement. It was during the winter, so very dark at that time of the morning.

On my walk, I would occasionally encounter a man on a bike riding to his place of work. I used to be terrified. It was before the days of any cctv so he could have easily attacked me and gotten away with it. There was no way of dealing with the situation other than to hope and pray nothing happened to me. Thankfully it didn’t, but I spent a hellish time during that time on placement constantly feeling frightened and feeling like a sitting duck. I was reckless doing those walks, but I had no other choice if I wanted to earn a living.

I'm one of the lucky minority - I've never experienced male violence.

Countless - and I mean countless - examples of low level sexual harassment and assault, but no actual violence.

But I hear you. I still live my life as prey. I'm still automatically scared of unknown men in certain situations.

How can any woman not be?

I remember getting into a conversation on here about male violence and our victim-blaming culture, once.

I said that I was out running and had to pass through a small wooded area (in daylight) - when two male runners approached me. My visceral reaction was that adrenalin-pumping fear, until they blithely passed by, on their way.

Of course they meant me no harm. But how was I to feel sure about that?

Anyway, some handmaiden, who was NAMALT-ing all over the thread - you know, 'most men are nice', 'don't tar all men with the same brush', 'that's soooo sexist', 'how can you live your life being so scared all the time?' yada, yada...

...had the audacity to tell me I was indulging in highly risky behaviour, by running alone somewhere like that.

So on the one hand, I'm the scardy-cat, living life terrified by men. While she was the one who would never dare to actually go out alone like I was doing.

The cognitive dissonance is strong on those who feel the innate need to deny reality.

I know first-hand that not all men are like that - because I don't even know any men like that! But it doesn't alter the fact that vast swathes of men assault, rape and kill women. On a daily basis.

GoldenWonderwall, I hear you and I understand very well.

We have an obligation to the young ones to talk about this out loud so they do not grow up internalizing:
the first rule of misogyny is that women are responsible for what men do, and the tenth rule of misogyny that the worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

NAMALT and "Real men don't rape" and "women do it too" are all DARVO tactics to keep women from talking about male violence, the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.

It's not just you, Boot

This is a sad thread. I spent so long thinking it was just and there was something wrong with me.

Thank god for MN and opening my eyes to this being a struggle women go through and it's not just me

I remember my friend at 17 who was in an violent and sexually abusive relationship being told by her parents it must be her fault. If she was a good girl it wouldn't happen to her.

My mother told me that I ought to be careful not to provoke him as, the next time, he might dump me...

women live their life as prey and can't afford not to be wary.

So, so true.

I've had my breasts grabbed in a pub when I've had a drink in each hand and could do nothing; I had a phone calls as a younger and older teenager threatening me in the most vile ways; I've been raped; I've escaped from rape; I've thought "fuck it" and gone along with sex or sexual acts just to get it over with because the rhetoric "I won't pressure you, I'm not like that" didn't match their actions; I've been aggressively threatened with rape; less aggressively threatened with rape and just treated as less than by someone I rejected for sex but didn't actually go as far as coercing me into sex; been coerced into sex...

I've had things shouted at me in the street by men who were old enough to know better and by boys who were barely old enough to know what they were saying.

I am wary.

I'm not scared. I'm not scared of men. I don't allow what some of them have done to make me fearful of them, but I am always mindful of what they are capable of and I don't trust any of them.

And if the decent men don't like that then it is the crappy men who are responsible they need to get arsey with. Not the women who are protecting themselves.

Living our lives as prey......wow, I actually never thought about it in that way, but yes, that’s exactly how I feel.

I’m lucky in that I don’t have to interact much at all with men and I don’t go out by myself unless it’s in the car, so I do feel safer these days.

I have been very badly sexually assaulted in the past, twice by senior doctors as well, so I really detest male medics in particular.

What does NAMALT mean? Not all men are.......?

I remember my friend at 17 who was in an violent and sexually abusive relationship being told by her parents it must be her fault. If she was a good girl it wouldn't happen to her.

I used to think it was normal and I wasn't doing enough to protect myself. Always my fault for being friendly or looking the way I did. Same for the friends I grew up with, it's your responsibility as a female to make sure you aren't attacked. If you are it's your fault and also the other females I knew would turn their back on one another because we were all conditioned to believe we must have behaved in a way to deserve it.