Being wary of men because of your experience of male violence

ah right

I still half wonder if I'd rather just sit in my car till police came by, not sure.

Yes, it was pre mobile phones. That's why it made sense. Because if some other man with bad intentions had pulled up he was there as a witness. There was no need for him to approach her. He just stayed until the police turned up.

Prawn, that would totally freak me out.

is this the days before mobile phones? That's about the only circumstance in which I think it might help to shout out "I'll go and get help".

Sorry, should have explained more. It was before dawn in a very long layby. He pulled in a good 100 yards back, got out, and stood with his hands spread out in an open position. Just stood. Didn't approach. She got out, at which he said he wasn't going to come any closer but did she need help getting AA. She didn't have AA. Said he would stay to keep an eye. A little while later the police arrived to ask did she need help (yes) and if DH was a problem. She immediately said that no, he'd stopped to help and kept at a long distance, thereby not intimidating her. She praised him.

same here golden

but whenever a boy is violent people just say "boys will be boys"

and whenever a man is violent people just say "not all men"

Prawn I would be horrified if a man tried to talk to me while my car was broken down.

last time it happened, I actually shouted out "oh AA just round the corner" to a couple of men who stopped. Because they're men I know nothing about.

then a woman stopped and offered to wait with me. I agreed to that.

I'd rather wait alone than have a man try to "reassure me".

I am definitely wary of men - i think it's perfectly reasonable to be wary when you consider their violence and abuse of women. And it is sad how many women feel 'lucky' when they face low level abuse from men. It's completely fucked that women feel LUCKY to be treated as only slightly less than human.

We feel gratitude when men treat us like human beings ffs! I do the same so I'm not pointing fingers. Men really have done a number on us.

Brilliant thread, some of the posts have been real light-bulb moments for me, thank you.

I've been talking to DS2 about his late DF and what he did in his small ways to reduce male violence. Was touched to discover that DS already does that crossing the road thing so that a woman walking ahead knows he isn't following her. Told him the lay by story as a heads up.

That must be awful OP

I've had some experience of harrassment and I get very annoyed with all the "NAMALT". There's clearly enough of it about for women to be wary and for facilities to be designed with it in mind.

the thing is, I was thinking the other day about male violence generally and how young men are often victims and generally concluded...men barely care about male violence in any form.

So I think it's totally reasonable to conclude that men are part of the same problem. I think some people get cross when I don't NAMALT because the reality is unbearable for them to think about.

I think it's important to encourage the men who do go out on a limb, who are aware.

My DH spent most of his working life in the music industry. Plenty of female artists, but the industry is overwhelmingly male even now. Back in the day when he was involved it was hugely sexist, with women judged on their appearance even more than today and he was very aware of how so many men spoke about women on tour buses etc. It made him very fierce about keeping an eye out for women's interests and I know my DSD very much appreciated having him at her back. She introduced all her boyfriends to him "so they know I've got a large protective dad."

He did all sorts of things over the years to reduce the risk to women - like stopping in a lay by and staying at a safe distance while speaking reassuringly to her until the police arrived when a woman broke down late at night. Male predation enraged him. It was one of the reasons I loved him

Miffer - I think maybe the reason you are more wary of women is because it is so unexpected that you assume she must be unhinged in some way - drunk, on drugs, mentally unstable and therefore more dangerous.

I agree that I also expect men to be aggressive and I am never surprised when they are. But I feel I can meet an angry women on my own level and talk reasonably with her. With a man I just get as far away as possible as soon as possible.

I posted about this a while ago but I am, sort of, the opposite. I am so used to men being aggressive it doesn't phase me. I expect it. In my job people often get angry at me, I am much more fearful when it is a woman. It's because I am used to men trying to physically intimidate me, it's all a bit same old same old.

That isn't to say I don't think it's as bad when it's a man it's more my brain goes into "oh this shit" mode rather than fear mode. When it's a woman it's more unexpected and unpredictable.

I want to, again, emphasise that I am not saying aggressive women are worse than aggressive men. Quite the opposite.

It isn't all men but if I think about my close friends, we have all experienced some abuse at some time, from rape, childhood abuse, domestic violence, attempted rape, violent father. That's just in my closest 5 friends and we are normal middle class women in professional jobs. I imagine you can extrapolate from that and assume the it may not be all men but most women have experienced abuse at some time. It's no bloody wonder we are wary.
On the other hand I know some complete gentlemen who have looked after me when i've been absolutely shitfaced. I've can name quite a few that have called out other men on the their behaviour including one who ensured the abuser lost his job. I know they are doing what they should but I think NAMALT can be unhelpful and perhaps we should be encouraging men to stand up and call out the abusers .

There are many women here stating that they have only experienced "low grade" sexual or violent abuse or that they only suffer harassment.
While I agree there are some abuses that will always be the worst and we all fear them the most.

But don't downgrade your own experiences. The cumulative effect is often very very damaging. the small actions of men against us can total a huge effect. Also one small event, can, for some women, trigger something much deeper.

All abuse is abuse and wrong.

My ex husband used to stop me going out with work colleagues because he "didn't trust" the way the men might act with me. he would point out how men were predatory and not to be trusted.

Then when I began to agree with him and talked about some of my feminist principles he stated that I obviously "hate" all men.

Men just want to control women and will even use their own reputation to do so. But fight back and all hell breaks loose. They totally agree that men are dangerous, yet they don't want us to fight against that. It's the basis of their privilege.

Thank you starting this thread Golden I’ve been “lucky” enough to have only been subjected to low grade sexual abuse and harrseement, but i feel very vulnerable a lot of the time and my poor early twenties DD has suffered an horrific sexual assault which has been heartbreaking for her and for us to watch her going through this.

I think this is why I am so against Self Id (sorry to bring this up). I believe that if women were not afraid of men(with very good reason) we wouldn’t care very much about sharing spaces. It is the real fear of assault which drives many women in this area and I want men to understand that.

I've suffered from male violence and rape but I also have absolutely lovely male friends and relatives. I'm sure of the men I know but I've always been fairly cautious about men I'm not sure of - all my life until recently.

I very much enjoy being older - late into middle age - because men no longer pester me when I'm alone in public. I recently had to wait for a friend who'd been delayed for about 40 minutes right in the middle of London. I sat on a bench by a fountain in the warm evening and no one hassled me. It was lovely.

I'm "lucky" in that my negative experiences are the kind of mild ones that women put up with every single chuffing day of our lives. The kinds of things that we all don't even bother mentioning. What's the point? But I'm still wary. I am never unaware of who else is around me, of where the nearest lit house is if I'm alone, walking after dark. I walk in the centre of the road, if need be. I lock the car doors when I'm driving alone. I do a 360 degree scan before I get in, or out of the car. I do a 360 degree scan before I open my front door when I get home. I only every wear trousers, and flat shoes. I make sure I can run, if I have to. I plan ahead, I leave notes saying exactly where I'm going and what time I ought to be back. I visit clients at home, and I make sure I have email addresses, phone numbers and a physical address for them before I go, and I leave it on my desk so my husband can find out who killed me and dumped my body. I work with women, other women, and yet I feel the need to make sure I leave a trail just in case one of these days, it's not a woman that I'm visiting at home.

My husband makes sure he takes at least a tenner, his phone and his keys. That's his preparation to see a client in their home.

GoldenWonderwall
Sorry to hear of your bad experiences you are right to wary and distrustful of men, Even to this day I'm still wary of men and don't like them being behind me, I can see where you are coming from and fully get what you are saying.

Yes, I have come to the point where I just really don't even like men any more. I have a husband but I love him despite the fact he is a man lol. His man tendencies are ones that I work around. Because of course at the end of the day he is just a person in a male body. He is the least maleist male I know, which is maybe why I fell in love with him 8 years ago.
My experiences with sexual violence, cohersion, male privelage etc. just mean I have had enough of men. I keep them all at arms distance, including my own father. They are not a source of security for me and never will be. My eyes have finally opened to why they are dangerous and oppressive individuals even if they don't mean to be. I now know why my mother was afraid of them too. I wish I believed her instead of having to go through what I did before seeing the truth.

Elendon, that's interesting and it might not just be about the aggressive git running the class

I didn't want to go to that kind of thing as a child because it looked scary. If you are scared of violence and rough and tumble generally - which I was, I think it's just innate - then joining that seems even more scary.

as an adult it was somehow easier to say "I need to learn how to kick the crap out of someone defend myself" - possibly because by teenage years, anger had taken over from fear!

depressing isn't it. Sorry.

Quentin - yes, anyone making you feel uncomfortable, the "why" doesn't matter. There was a man in my workplace who set my spidey senses off to the point that I would physically step back two steps when he approached me. After the last Christmas lunch, he went round enthusiastically hugging and kissing all the women, but when he came to me, he put his hand out for a handshake.

Yes elendon
I pulled my daughter out of something np questions asked, because she was worried about a man there. I found it very hard not to make her justify why she was worried or downplay it. But we need to teach our daughters that their instincts are to be trusted. And to do that we need to show them that we value their instincts.

I want to help build my daughter a much better shark cage than my own

My daughter enrolled on a self defence course. She was about 10 at the time. I happily brought her there and back for two lessons. She decided to no longer go.

The instructor, male, arrived at the door after I had respectfully called to say that she would no longer be attending and that I didn't require a refund.

He was most adamant that she should attend the course, he was with one of his children at this time. I listened and nodded. But said that I went with my child's decision to not go back. I did ask her again if anything untoward took place and she said no, but that she didn't feel safe. That was enough for me.

Always believe your child.

I am having counselling at the moment. I am suffering from ptsd. We were talking yesterday about times I have been at real physical threat and I thought about it more after. I have been at threat a few times in my life, all from men. Abuse as a child, witnessing male violence as a child, and being raped and assaulted as a young adult. I am starting to understand the physical reactions my body is experiencing now are some kind of delayed reaction to the violence and abuse I experienced years ago and that it was all at the hands of men. I am not scared of men.. I have male friends, a male partner, a brother...but I am scared of being alone with some men in certain situations. Like walking in a secluded area if a man is behind me I will feel scared, and I know it isn't that man's fault and he probably won't do anything, but my gut reaction is one of fear. My first couple of lessons with a male driving instructor, as soon as he started driving us to a quiet road to practice in my heart started to pound and I wanted to get out of the car. I didn't express that fear to him and I tried to ignore it but I couldn't stop it taking over my body. I think it is a rational response but it's difficult to express that without sounding like I'm demonising an entire group of people.