Being wary of men because of your experience of male violence

I think that the 'us against them' narrative is driven by men...The same knuckle draggers who call feminists man haters and who have been instrumental in making girls and women afraid to call themselves feminist.

So often feminists have asked that men do more, listen more...only to be let down again and again.

I don't consider myself to have experienced 'real' male violence. Nevertheless I have still:
Been kerbcrawled on any number of occasions. (The first time it happened I was wearing my school uniform.)
Been groped between the legs while in a crush at a bar and unable to move.
Been grabbed on a busy street in broad daylight and felt up. (Lots of people around - no-one came to help.)
Been followed down a busy road by a group of leering, catcalling men. (Again no-one helped me.)
Had a man hide in the garden to spy on us (student female flats).
Had a man masturbating in the seat next to me at the cinema.
Been groped on the tube so many times I've lost count.

I've known some women whom I've disliked intensely but none of them have ever done anything remotely like that to me. I did once see two women fighting - over 40 years ago and I've never forgotten it, which I think shows how rare it is in my experience.

I have great relationships with some men and I love them dearly. I still don't think they get it. They have some insight into the violence, because they have to be wary of it themselves, but not about all the so-called 'low grade' everyday banal stuff. They have no idea how much it wears you down, none whatsoever.

Sorry, GoldenWonderwall, I think we're at cross purposes here. I'm not intending any sort of attack on you. Please accept my apologies if that's the impression you have.

I too have had widespread experience of male violence. I've been raped twice and another man forced me to give him a bj when I was underage. I've been beaten up too. I don't underestimate male violence.

However I was lucky enough to grow up with a DF who was very keen on women's rights. He's over 80 now. He brought up my DBs with the same assumptions and I wouldn't have married a man who didn't consider women his equals in every way.

And my observation is that all of the rights movements - civil rights, the Suffragettes, BLM - have benefited from the endorsement of members of the oppressor class. If women's liberation is "us against them" every step of the way, it'll take a lot longer.

I know there are men who support women's liberation and I feel we should acknowledge/work with them.

I am not talking about the sort of 'woke' idiots who call themselves feminists to pull or just impress women. The sort of men I'm thinking of would likely never describe themselves as feminists. They just see themselves as decent blokes.

I'm one of the lucky ones who's never experienced male violence. As a result, I'm not generally wary of men. That does not in any way mean that I don't understand why many women are though. Responding 'NAMALT' to someone who's had your experiences would be stupid, insensitive, cruel and naive.

I was horrendously bullied by two women but I have to say their impact on me was minimal. It's strange - I think that I could forgive them because I kind of understood WHY they were doing this. They thought by pulling me down they would receive more scraps from the master's table. Plus the power imbalance between us wasn't huge.

But when I was bullied by three men...I was scarred for life. I NEVER forgave and never will. For three men to gang up against one woman was just evil.

My experience is that sadly a lot of misogyny comes from women, who cut each other down. Of course women hardly ever represent any kind of physical threat (unless you're a child at risk of FGM) so we aren't wary of them in the same way, but it's true that rape myths are propagated by women against other women. In terms of what you might call reputational damage and sexism women have harmed me considerably.

I suppose that, unlike some of the other women on this board, who have had almost exclusively bad experiences with men, I've had very positive relationships with men who hate male dominance and violence so I see things somewhat differently. I feel this sort of man deserves encouragement because I don't believe women can achieve liberation without the support of at least a proportion of men and I'm sure this is achievable.

If women's liberation is seen as women against all men then we will fail. We need at least some men to reject the patriarchy and its works.

I suppose my feeling is not NAMALT (because obviously that's true and it doesn't change the fact that men are far more violent than women) but that to make a real cultural change requires the work of both sexes. It'll take ages too. We need every hand we can get.

Women alone cannot change how society operates. There are men who loathe violence and sex crimes too.

Because of past experiences, one or two with ex h and being physically assaulted by ex p who then tried to gain access to my home, where my children also were, I will never have a relationship again.

About 13/4 being forced to put my hand down a boys trousers at school.Once one did it more followed suit. Almost raped by an older boy who was 'a friend' when 15. Mum happened to come looking for me oe he'd have suceeded. As a young women in 20s groped and sexually harrassed at work numerous times. I worked at bbc and we all know by now about the culture of misogny there. Many more but its making me angry just thinking about it and im trying to make my anger useful these days

those response are the ones where I think "use your virtual ignore button". I was on a forum before we actually had an ignore button which was handy

I've just been told on another thread that Vicky is a known MRA.

Vicky1990 That sounds awful. It's a shame he didn't tell the police because I am sure they are aware women can commit offenses too. I guess a few years back it was less well known but there are some awful women out there too.

I was made aware of how violent females can be from what my brother told us after his divorce.
His ex was very controlling and would regularly pull a knife on him, and if he tried to leave the house to get away she would threaten to kill the children.
He was scared to inform the police as he didn't think they would believe him.
She caused a lot of bad things in our family, but as she was a woman she got away with it.

*or call the AA

I don't know what happened back then if you didn't have cover.

Prawn, please don't take this personally, just thinking through that scenario. When I began driving, I didn't have a mobile phone either.

so at some point your husband had to speak to her to say what he was doing? couldn't he have just said "I'll go to a phone box and call for help"? Then he wouldn't have had to lurk there.

what makes him any more safe than another strange man? What could have happened if she had just waited there and not opened the door to a strange man?

what she really needed, in a pre mobile age, was someone to call the police from a phone box surely?

and you say "he came home very chipper". Men only get to be heroes because men are violent to women. It's all totally awful. What's to be "chipper" about in that scenario?

i'm sorry if I'm missing something but it sounds like "I, a man, will keep an eye on you in case a man decides to attack you".

Now if another random man would be coming along to attack her - was she in the car or outside of it - how would she know he wouldn't sit there for an hour as power play and then do it himself?

I used to think I much preferred the company of men. In the past I've both tried to be more like a man and be liked more by men (be the cool girl etc). Now I can see that was all probably just survival tactics.

So much to agree with on this thread but this is exactly my experience.

Sorry late husband.

Prawn your husband sounds very caring.

Pre mobile phones I'd have felt safer knowing there was a bloke with enough common sense not to expect me to trust him but who was concerned enough not to leave me unprotected.

I think they both got back in their cars after he'd made contact. But he had to speak to her initially because if he hadn't explained his actions she would've been terrified. The police were naturally a bit sceptical about the 'white knight' but she was very positive about his intervention. He came home very chipper with himself.

In my teens I was threatened with violence by an ex. A friend who was there said he was no fighter and he couldn't stop the beating but he could be a witness. He just stayed put. It worked. I'll always be grateful for his courage. He was so scared but he stuck up for me.

Same sort of thing. Men being realistic about the fact that a lot of men can often be dangerous to women and being prepared to act on it. Too many men downplay male aggression.

If women refused to have sex with misogynists we could break the bastards in a couple of generations. Sadly it's a bit more complicated than that.

For me it has only been low-level stuff.

But enough knowledge of what can happen to be very wary men.

I'm old enough now to admit how I feel. As a young woman I think I had not really put it together on my head.

My heart goes out to all womem and girls hurt by men and boys.