Brian Paddick asking for feminist views on Self Id

They all say that. Look at Jo Maugham. It always comes to nothing.

I’ve just been reading a couple of trans threads in some Lib Dem Facebook groups.

There’s no way in hell Paddick can change the direction of the LDs on this. The liberal dudebros are possibly worse than the brocialists for patting themselves on the back, calling themselves progressive and shouting down women as TERFs if they question it.

As a party member, only just, I very much doubt this will have a positive outcome (wish it were not so). The libdems endorse personal freedom above everything else, but I don't think it extends to women.

ChattyLion...I wish,..oh how I wish..that Politicians would act for anyone/anything other than themselves.) I would tend to vote for the WEP (if they had a rep in the Highlands and Islands)but their non opinion on the whole Gender Confirmation debate leaves me wondering.

freespeech...I feel very strongly about this, I have a close family member who is Trans and just wants to live a quiet life. He is a Trans Man, I haven’t had the courage to speak to him face to face about this..I love him to bits and just want him to live his life in peace and not to have a tough time. I won’t bother getting into the dynamics of gender or anything else. What really angers me is the refusal, by a small group of loudmouths (cause that’s what they are) to accept that other people (women, who make up 50% of the population) need safe spaces. It’s shocking that they disrupt free speech..in fact, it’s apparently speech crime (apologies to Mr Orwell) if you have a differing view! FFS! They even want to re write history (birth certificates) to confirm their ideology. That’s not sane...It’s Big brother meets the Handmaids Tale..it’s sickening. You are 100% right, we have to have logical conversations based on facts with politicians and people who have influence. We have to be calm and rational unlike the fuckwits who claim to represent the Trans Community...There..I’ve said my piece..I’m going back to Lurking again until I understand more 😂

Memaidhead
I did wonder!
It is so difficult and I feel the rage at times at what is happening. It isn't fair that women are held to a different standard but at the moment, I believe that the issue is far more important than my feelings.
We are starting to make small inroads but the space has been left to the transactivists for so long to fill it with their toxic message, mainly because most feminists and women are inclusive and we just assumed that they were vulnerable and oppressed and why would we challenge such a marginalised group?
And then we started to see the silencing of women, their relentless focus on children and schools, misogyny dressed up as inclusion, women being instructed to be silent about our bodies etc etc. and the penny dropped.

I’m hoping this could be start of at least one political party taking a rational, gender critical view. I really want to have someone to vote for.

Freespeechforwomen...Well said!. I’m mostly a lurker who hasn’t a scooby and is trying to learn. I was shocked at the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act and the implications on Women’s Spaces. I’m still trying to get to grips with the abbreviations and terminology used on this part of MN. Thanks for making sense to me 👍. My user name has nothing to do with the Mermaids organisation. It was chosen because of my hair colour (a comment by my niece)...just saying in case anyone thinks otherwise!

Good news. Of course we have to engage with politicians - including those who have been dismissive. Remember - it's the TRAs who shout #nodebate and they have been exceptionally successful to date.
It is only down to some very courageous women who are facing an absolute onslaught of abuse from activists that we have started to make some shifts in the narrative.
We need to engage respectfully with politicians and others - if we don't these issues will remain on here and never get into the mainstream.

Hopefully Karen Ingala-Smith will do a brilliant job of explaining concerns.

(YYY Delia, I love it)

Karen Ingala-Smith has confirmed she's meeting with him - a number of TRAs very concerned but he's told the, to "trust me". Helen from mermaids & Shon Faye among them. He's not confirming names unless people want to confirm meeting with him, which Karen has done. Looks like they have history i.e. they've worked together in the past as well, and he's said he trusts her.

Will be interesting to see what comes from this.

He showed his bias and disdain for “TERFS” in his first few tweets.

As pp have said, it is a positive step that a senior member of the LibDems has sought out (in his own words) "sensible feminists" to discuss the issues. The outcome of the meeting will be eagerly awaited. It seems that the message is now filtering through to politicians.

worth considering...

I think its really important to find ways to shift and challenge the narrative....
It is a key tactic of some TRAs to create the illusion of two sides. They have framed this as

1. those who believe people who are transgender have human rights which are being denied.
2. 'evil terfs', RadFems, 'so-called feminists' whose sole intention is to deny the human rights of people who are transgender and to cause them harm.

Brian Paddick is pro-trans - he appears on LM twitter.

Chromazones....XX=Woman XY=Man YYY=Delilah...(sorry couldn’t resist!🤪)

I’ve just read his Twitter feed and he hasn’t got a clue has he.

It will be very interesting to see what happens!

BM but surely, at the moment it’s mostly feminists who are talking about this. So it makes sense to ask with them.

A lot of men are clueless and it’s a positive thing he’s asking for points if views from Feminists.

Nobody else has asked.

Someone needs to tell him it Is a lot of WOMEN who have a problem with it not "just" feninists. I think it's dismissive.

One women's project I know that works with women who have experienced abuse (not a refuge) provides individual support to TIMs but doesn't involve them in groups. Women at the project are very clear that they want a women only service (though this is in relation to men in general rather than TIMs). There seems to be very little discussion of this between providers, I guess people are scared.

Maybe he should do a web chat? He can't complain about the lack of feminists willing to talk here.

In terms of safety after domestic violence, as far as I'm aware, transwomen are already accepted in many refuges.

Perhaps someone who understands what refugees are like could help, here. But as far as I'm aware, there are several different ways to offer support. Some of them not necessarily in a group situation, or, indeed, being in the same place as the women at all.

One poster mentioned that counsellors can go to the person's house? Is that right?

It's not so much a question of denying support to transwomen, just tailoring it so that it doesn't impact in any way on the other women.

Of course, you could get in a situation where a transwoman demands inclusion in group therapy, for instance, for validation purposes. But at that point the exemptions could easily be invoked.

And just as easily invoked if they want to be an actual counsellor.

It feels to me, as though this demand for access to rape refugees, is either a deliberate attempt to incite, or dominate, which ever way you look at it.

Anyone who managed to get to his level without knowing humans can’t change Sex is a lost cause, or even worse, knowing that basic fact but choosing to ignore it.

Poor Paddick. Wanting everyone to bow down to his specialness and his special pain and to celebrate him and not getting it.