Brian Paddick asking for feminist views on Self Id

Attenborough would be fantastic and could present the biological female case with ease. I doubt anybody would perceive him to have an agenda.
Stephen Fry perhaps, or Fiona Bruce.
But I don't think they should be a spokesperson, merely well respected people who seem rational, intelligent and without prejudice.
But I suppose we too have to do our part amongst friends and be calm and collected in how we express ourselves and present the issues.

I hope someone has the guts to speak out which seems such a sad plea. It shouldn't take guts, just common sense.

Dawn French would do a good job of cutting through the crap but I have no idea what her views are.

Alan Bennett

I agree
but I'm not sure who a middle of the road high profile person would be
David Attenborough? He is unassailable (IMO)

The problem we high profile feminists or a lesbian making the point is that the public will assume it's a niche issue or being raised by those with radical views. That isn't a criticism of those making the point but of the public in general.
It needs what people perceive to be middle of the road high profile people to explain it in middle of the road terms. I don't think Mr or Mrs 2.4 Kids of Bedfordshire are switched on to the looming problems, nor do I think they will immediately realise that a high profile feminist isn't on some new bandwagon complaining about a relatively obscure issue. It's feminists who are spotting the issues well ahead of the rest of society, but people aren't appreciating the issues affect the mainstream.

At least someone.... I mean people talking about ROGD not Brian...

But are there other 'high profile' peeps willing to stick heads above parapets? Are there any out there with little to lose?

Are there any lesbians mobilising? Anyone high profile? They surely cannot be accused of old fashioned bias.

I am becoming to feel hopeful. Not that Brian will ride in on a white charger and save us, but that his pony's hooves might throw up some dust and allow other voices to rise. Voices we really trust, our national treasure LGB and T people who want to say hang on, i transitioned as an adult but here we have young kids at risk, women's rights at risk, young girls hating their lesbian selves and female bodies.

@TallulahWaitingInTheRain

"They'll sit on their hands until a generation of sterilised, mutilated children is demanding to know why this was allowed to happen and then they'll tell us they always stood against it."

It's grim. It's brave New world.

Have you see stuff about ROGD? Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria.

I googled, got some sites. Then lost it. Googled got some antis and went from there!

At someone is recognising the contagion.


Absolutely, Tallulah . It's the 'if you didn't wind me up I wouldn't have to batter and strangle you' line you can find women on the relationships board living with daily. It's just got a liberal bro sweater on and has been niced up a bit.

It could be political suicide for someone to be considered transphobic.
Even though it's not remotely transphobic to be concerned about the erosion of genetic women's rights, it is often being framed as such.
It takes a brave politician to risk it.

If the wider population can grasp the fear of the repercussions of self ID, rather than self ID itself, then politicians will fall over themselves to win a popular vote, but right now it looks like people are against the principle of self ID rather than the knock on effects and rights issues, and that (imo) is a key message that's not hitting home thus the misguided accusation of transphobia

Women are always being told 'we'll respect you more if you just behave a bit more like a doormat', 'we'll start listening if you would only speak a bit more quietly', 'we would stop taking advantage of you if you were just a bit nicer and more generous'

It doesn't work

I think suggesting we flush people out is not likely to help fan the small flames of listening and debate that could be started.

Nobody is suggesting anybody should flush people out. You're projecting, Wine. And, frankly, you seem to be saying that nice Brian has told us little ladies that he'll think about it so now we should show due deference to the important man and trust him with our interests.

He's a man. He's in politics. He's already waded in and chosen a side without having investigated at all, on the assumption that the women must be wrong. The issue is a hot potato. Even if he subsequently realises he was wrong, he is highly unlikely to say so. Why? Because women don't matter to men. That is exactly why we are where we are.

If it all collapses and the "right side of history" suddenly changes, Brian will tell us he was always with us. But never ever while there might be negative consequences for him. Cos he is a man and we are women. Low priority.

Raising awareness of the need to tackle this and speak up generally, particularly amongst politicians and the media is really important.

Just because politicians and others aren't speaking up on twitter or elsewhere at the moment doesn't mean some aren't listening and becoming more aware/aware of the issues.

We are giving him space aren't we? Does that mean we have to censor ourselves in our own space as well?

But really, I do think there might be some mileage in drawing the attention of the interested to thinking about the potential long-term consequences of remaining silent and not just the short term consequences of breaking silence.

I wasn't suggesting that we (or I) flush him out.

More about the result of his meeting with Karen. But maybe you're right, and speculation is counter-productive.

I'm not sure we are helping by posting things like this. I think anyone who has openly said they will listen should be given space to do that and form their own point of view, and act in whatever way they decide based on that. I think suggesting we flush people out is not likely to help fan the small flames of listening and debate that could be started.

They'll sit on their hands until a generation of sterilised, mutilated children is demanding to know why this was allowed to happen and then they'll tell us they always stood against it.

Maybe Karen IS Will tweet the results of her meeting, if it's positive. That might flush him out.

I think the most we could ever hope for is that he ceases actively to campaign for self ID. But he won't help. He will wash his hands of it.

Why?

Lang is right

Why LangCleg?

I think he should be given credit for being open minded, openly and in a difficult environment, and we can't assume what he's thinking.

I think it's entirely possible that he will have his previously pro-transactivism opinion changed. The point is, I am certain that, even if he does, he'll never say so on Twitter or anywhere else someone might hear him.

I still think he has asked to hear the other side of things from the narrative he has heard so far. Which is great. And getting off twitter is a way of having a proper conversation about it.

I think he should be given credit for being open minded, openly and in a difficult environment, and we can't assume what he's thinking.