DV "gone wrong"

You really do have to wonder about all the people that come in here and moan about all the 'anti-trans' opinions on here.

Just what is their agenda?

I mean, it doesn't take 5 seconds to work out what the problem is; it is the likes of JF and as evidenced by the info detailed in this thread...and yet still the people moaning about MN being 'anti-trans' day in, day out.

Great post Materialist
It's incredibly dangerous - especially for women and children but actually for society as a whole. And some of these very people are being courted and feted by our politicians and the establishment without any hesitation and given a level of power and control that places so many at risk.

trans are allowed to completely erase their past

Yes, it's called transwashing.

Everything they did and said before they 'come out' as trans simply melts away and becomes as nothing. If women bring those things out into the open, it's women who are the evil bastards.

I agree that the way to deal with any of this is to critique tweets and opinion and not make personal attacks.

After recent threads on porn and increased violence depicted towards women, the testimony of two porn actresses who were effectively abused and signals to stop were ignored, learning more about the facts behind the violent porn act has made me feel quite sick. Particularly chilling was the link to a blog where porn hub had been analysed and comparisons between gay male porn (kissing etc) and hetro porn (violence, anal, 'rose budding,' no kissing) showed extreme misogyny.

Is there a war on women? I think so.

JF is no feminist. If JF has been aware of all this awful porn stuff, there's no way they support women.

I have a hell of a lot more respect (and I had a hell of a lot already) for those real feminists such as Julie Bindel and Karen I S who have had the patience to sit next to and even be nice and courteous to JF, when I'm sure they know about all of this.

And I say real feminists, not meaning they're real women, but they really think about the needs of women. I'm thinking of MY, Kristina and Debbie too. And to an extent, radical feminism could absolutely include trans women, and does actually in terms of being against the patriarchy and misogyny - but not those TW who are actively contributing to this misogyny.

This thread has completely confirmed that no, I'm not a terf. The term terf doesnt make any sense. I'm not about excluding trans people from feminism, I'm about making sure natal women are protected and not shat upon and I'm against the kind of flippant and deep seated misogyny this JF person is peddling.

I think my comparison was too direct, and I understand why they deleted the post.

Why was Born's post deleted? @MNHQ

Another one sharing the genuine thanks to MNHQ and to all the brave women who are currently up front and facing the onslaught.

These tweets and the information that has come out has been truly horrifying on so many levels. My disgust is quite visceral at the awfulness of the views. But I thought it might be worth sharing what Karen Ingala Smith tweeted about this a few hours ago:

"I'm no fan of Jane'campaigner on sexual liberty*'Fae and appalled at the attitude to domestic violence revealed in those tweets, but please critique the tweets/opinion rather make personal attacks.
We can do better.*

Let's protect ourselves while ensuring that these disgraceful views are widely shared and condemned.

That's a good point borntobequiet Savile got away with it because of the old currency of celebrity. Fae gets away with it because of the new currency of 'woke'. Both things make people suspend their critical thinking and ignore their instincts.

I'd like to make it harder for them to ignore the facts.

Born

"I wouldn't have had a clue about ths without MN, and I consider myself well informed. Thanks, all of you who have helped enlighten me."

I so agree with this. And it's been a hell of a journey for all of us, including @MNHQ.

I would, again, like to thank MN for facilitating debate and free speech.

I know they will have been under enormous pressure from the trans lobby.

Thanks, MN, for letting us speak. It's outrageous that in 2018, women should have to say this; I am shocked ona daily basis now

I have to hope that's a coincidence.

Interesting that they wish to dismantle aspects of safeguarding laws. Now why would someone want to do that?

Christ. It's PIE all over again.

I have nothing new to add but I wanted to register my contempt, both for the original tweet and the subsequent attempt to minimise it.

On a positive note, Fae has presented us with the perfect argument for women-only safe spaces. As the op says, a spectacular own goal.

I personally hope that Fae's comments are left up for everyone to see and that Fae is reminded of it every time they make a media appearance.

His hatred for women - who have done nothing to him - must be killing him. He has a dark soul.

The group was formed to oppose the UK Government's 2008 bill to outlaw porn of the type that was believed to have inspired the murder of Jane Longhurst.

2010 John adopts the name Jane.

In a way, im glad that he posted that tweet because I've learnt that he's not the affable acceptable face of trans activism that he likes to portray. The mask is starting to slip and more of the public will start to see what's really going on but reading that tweet is hard going.

Wow

Please read this tweet

Says everything about Jane Fae

twitter.com/terryfarmer669/status/978322380069142530

Good for Jess. We need to support her because she's going to need it. The transborg will be angry

Actually, this whole thing has really upset me. How bloody dare this vile person set themselves up as some kind of arbiter of moral goodness when he's behaved so shoddily?

And good for Jess Phillips, I hope she gets the back up she needs, because they're going to fucking eat her.

Good for Jess Phillips

Interesting to see Jess Phillips retweeted condemnation

Jess Phillips Retweeted
Karen Ingala Smith
‏Verified account @K_IngalaSmith
12h12 hours ago

Peddling of falsehood wrapped up as knowledge (actually most men who commit intimate partner femicide make a decision to kill) and the minimising of the impact of domestic violence & abuse for those who live with it let alone those who have been killed, a new low for Jane Fae

CapnHaddock

So from that review, it seems Ozimek is arguing that gays and women occupy a special victimhood status in our society when actually they're not as discriminated against as men like him to transgress all our societal norms. Who argue that censorship of films in which men torture women is wrong. We all have free choice. There is no trafficking, there is no coercion, there is no rape, there is only consent and using force to get one's way.

And murder is just domestic violence pushed that little bit too far.

Oddly enough, that's exactly what MRAs argue. Isn't that strange? So very very odd and strange that these two viewpoints would align like that. /s

Thank you for the information in this thread. I've seen too many "TERF & SWERF" combined defenses of commercial sexual exploitation and trans-identified men's pornsick conceptions of themselves as female to think it mere coincidence.

On top of Jane Fae and Roz Kaveney, there's Janet Mock's popular book promoted in worldwide media that included defenses of transgender rights and the more wholesome aspects of child prostitution.

Back when I was still giving trans the benefit of the doubt, I read of Surang Janyam, a TIM who started a sex worker group in Thailand and who got lots of media attention and awards. I remember starting to notice how many so-called sex worker rights groups (also in Norway and Mexico) were started and fronted by the tiny population of men who pretend they're women.
www.nswp.org/timeline/event/surang-janyam-wins-human-rights-defenders-award

I can also think of Tobi Hill-Meyer, high-profile “pornographer" and TIM activist, writer, and feminist event leader. tobihillmeyer.com/books/

The sheer number of them writing books and forming politically active pheminist groups with this duo of goals (notice there's no racial -ERF) is more than a casual connection. In the current climate, few journalists can dare to ask “What’s with the TERF & SWERF pairing?”

That’s why there are radical feminists. :)