Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times today

I don’t see that anyone is keen to be aligned with him, I saw it as an appreciation of a mainstream (male, because let’s not pretend that won’t help) voice bringing awareness to the issue.

The faction controlling the labour party atm wouldn't work with Mandela's ANC to combat apartheid. Fundamentalists aren't very collaborative or pragmatic I've noticed.

GnotherGnu the sweet little poppets bit I think possibly stems from your own issues rather than anything Liddle is likely to write.
Judging by his column this week tho there is a chance he lurks here in which case, hi rod. You could stand to lose a few pounds mate.

I really can't understand why you think that having the same opinion as someone on one subject suggests that you share all their opinions.

sigh. That's not what I said. It would be really nice if people didn't try to misinterpret things to suit the answer they want to give.

Frankly, I simply wouldn't want to be associated in any way with someone like this, even though I dare say he will inevitably have some opinions that coincide with mine - even if it's just on the merits of a sunny day. I would rather ignore him than risk him claiming validation because look, all those sweet little poppets on MN agree with him.

Also, how do you (Gnu) propose that we stop Liddle writing about this stuff, if indeed we wanted to do that? Or is the idea that he writes what he wants (which I assume he'd do anyway) and we automatically condemn it even if in this particular case we think he's right.

When did I propose that we stop him? I'm a very firm believer in free speech. I don't propose that he be condemned either. My unease lies in the fact that so many people are eager to be aligned with him when his record on, in particular, feminism is appalling. If you validate him in any way, he will have a lovely time twisting it and claiming that MN supports him. Much better to ignore him.

MrsJoJo I spent the 80s canvassing for the Labour Party with my parents in a hardcore Tory area. It was fucking depressing, but I was absolutely convinced that the Tories were scum and that life would be better for poor people under Labour. I cried tears of joy in May 1997.

As of 2018, I cannot vote Labour, due to Bromentum and their misogynistic identity politics. Corbyn is a joke. I agree with Rod Liddell in this instance.

Fuck Labour for now

I think the Conservatives are hoping it will just go away. They are not actively pushing the issue now and as they don't have all women selection lists they won't get tangled up in that mess.

What's shocking is we are NOT getting support from senior women politicians. They all seem to be retreating to the shadows. Can you imagine the disconnect between what they say in public and what they're really thinking in their heads. I think they're equating it with homophobia against gay people and of course it's nothing like that.

I think we're in a dangerous place.

Definitions based on material reality are being called hate speech

People are being arrested for thought crimes.

This is about authoritarianism, not left/right politics.

Tbh I'm generally of the persuasion that "my enemy's enemy is my friend - for now".

I generally do not feel the need to like or dislike people over one issue.

I'm equally not inclined (given where we are) to turn down support from the likes of RL.

What's shocking is we are NOT getting support from senior women politicians.

Rod is a friend of Julie Bindel. He's a bit rough and ready and a wind up merchant but frankly I prefer that to the utter serpent toothed cuntitude displayed by men on the "new" left.

@MargeH hello from a fellow right of centre woman! There are clearly a few of us lurking around here

Had anyone specifically sent the petition to Unite?

The fact that there's another internal group finally pushing back against Momentum is a good sign, I think.

If an actual leftist with real clout came out against self ID think of the flood of support they'd get

God, yes. I do have some hopes of the unions esp given the involvement of people like the fabulous Ruth Serwotka

If an actual leftist with real clout came out against self ID think of the flood of support they'd get.

And also death threats, if they were a woman. Which is why they don't.

What hackmum said: the tribe I've lived in all my life is throwing women under the bus. If someone will speak out to stop THIS ONE ISSUE, I'll listen and deal with the other stiluff later. Kudos also to whoever said odd alliances defeated apartheid.

We will continue to focus on both trans issues and other things, but your attempt to control the conversation has been noted.

Focus on something else but trans issues. Anything.

Oh I'm definitely convinced, please share more of your wisdom about what "fems" should do.

In the land of the blind the one-eyed columnist is marginally less annoying

(With apologies to blind people)

Obvs you're just content to be stuck firmly in your 'without sin' echo chamber.

Nae dramz.

Although you'd be hard pushed to find a single person who is totes without sin, obvs.

Tallulah, not EVERYONE supports prostitution.