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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Still cross about stall at primary school Spring Fair...WWYD?

89 replies

Wigeon · 24/03/2018 08:28

So, one of the stalls at DD’s infant school yesterday was called “Don’t judge a book by it’s [sic] cover” and had a load of books wrapped in brown paper. You could choose a mystery book for 30p. BUT, each book had written on it either “B+G”, “B” or “G”, indicating whether the book was for boys or girls or both.

The irony when the stall was about not judging a book by its cover!

I started talking to two teachers who were standing nearby (women in their 20s), who both looked a bit embarrassed, one said “yes, I thought that was a bit odd”. Tried to ask them whether a book about trucks or dinosaurs wasn’t for my DD. What about a book about space, or the work of the police - was that a boy book or a girl book, or perhaps both? Then found a pen so I could re-label every book “B+G”, but stopped short of doing anything as it felt like I was interfering.

I think the stall had probably been organised by a well-meaning parent volunteer, so I think the teachers probably didn’t want to change it.

What would you have done? How come even young women who are in charge of teaching young children don’t feel this is sufficiently problematic to do something about it?

OP posts:
Wigeon · 24/03/2018 08:56

To posters saying I don’t have a right to raise this if I haven’t volunteered myself: one of the thing she stoping me complaining in the moment was that I hadn’t volunteered on this particular occasion, although I have for years helped this school in many ways, including being a governor for three years as well as volunteering on trips, at other events like this etc.

But I think it’s rubbish to say that because I didn’t volunteer on the particular occasion I have no right to criticise. The reason I didn’t volunteer this time:

I am having a hugely busy time at my work, which is directly about reducing inequalities for children. I am exhausted and have no more time to give.

I am a (volunteer) trustee for my local women’s centre, and also spending a huge amount of time on that at the moment, giving opportunities for local women to fulfil their potential.

So I do go out of my way to volunteer and give my time, and I’m grateful that other parents did this time. But literally labelling some subjects as boy subjects and others as girl subjects is exactly the reason why girls don’t become engineers, boys don’t become primary school teachers, and we are worse off as a society because of it.

OP posts:
TheBitterBoy · 24/03/2018 08:55

I think this is actually a problem with the books that are out there for kids today. I don't remember there being such a specific marketing of girl books and boy books when I was an avid reader as a child in the 70s/80s

FeistyColl · 24/03/2018 08:53

I don't get it either OP. If they want it to be a random pick then make it random. If they want people to chose a book they think they will like, then make it a book stall.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 24/03/2018 08:53

what is it about fairies that makes them inappropriate for boys to read about? - it's not inappropriate, some children (both boys and girls) don't like them.

Why doesn’t your son like fairies? - I'd ask him, but he's still asleep. He's allowed to have likes and dislikes about what he reads and no-one should judge that. I don't judge your choices.

Would he like a book about elves or sprites - they are more appropriate masculine magical tiny creatures perhaps? - No he doesn't. Do you have a problem with that? Why?

DullAndOld · 24/03/2018 08:51

I would have been most upset by that random apostrophe tbh...;)

I

runningoutofjuice · 24/03/2018 08:49

The irony of the name of the stall. There is so much gender neutral stuff that anything specifically aimed at boys or girls could easily be avoided so that was lazy on the part of the organiser, Ditto lucky dips.

Wigeon · 24/03/2018 08:45

Milk - what is it about fairies that makes them inappropriate for boys to read about? Why doesn’t your son like fairies? Would he like a book about elves or sprites - they are more appropriate masculine magical tiny creatures perhaps? There is literally nothing innate about a fairy which makes it inappropriate for a boy, apart from years and years of cultural conditioning which has told that young boy that he shouldn’t like fairies because they are for girls. And this stall is part of that problem.

It’s not a genuine matter of choice and personal preference when 99% of infant-aged children would say that books on cars are for boys and books about fairies are for girls. If it was genuine choice, more of the boys would choose the fairy book and the girls would the car book.

OP posts:
53rdWay · 24/03/2018 08:45

Some people follow traditions and it is not your place to take away that choice.

Well then maybe a “don’t judge the book by its cover” setup where you can’t see the book isn’t the best place for them? Not like there’s nowhere else to buy books!

OP I’d be right with you. If they felt the need to give the kids a bit of information about the book, couldn’t they just put a very brief summary on the cover/next to the pile? That’s what I’ve seen bookshops do with this sort of thing.

MountainWitch · 24/03/2018 08:42

Challenge it at the next parent teacher council meeting (where it was probably organised) and get involved yourself.

Our school moved to one generic lucky dip with toys for everyone a few years ago thanks to the head teacher who quite rightly thought girl and boy lucky dips were.a load of nonsense.

Donotbequotingmeinbold · 24/03/2018 08:42

I agree with the PP. My son would not want a book about fairies or princesses though some boys in his class would and could pick a 'g' book. One of my DDs would happily read a book about trucks so could pick any of the books but the other DD would not be interested in traditionally boy topics at all so would go for 'g'. I think they were trying to help people get a book they may have a chance of liking. I like the idea of the stall. Surely science and geography and animal books would have been labelled 'b & g'?

nobutreally · 24/03/2018 08:42

Hummm. I totally agree with you - it’s a horribly limiting approach - but I can see how they got there: a lucky dip always has the potential to frustrate kids and there is real potential to get a book you’re not interested in! I wouldn’t want to be the person who had to jolly along a load of five year olds who’ve got books they’re not remotely interested in. In other words - I suspect it’s an issue with the unwrapped book concept per se. I wonder if you could suggest a themed based letter approach - so S = sport; n = nature; f = fantasy & fairies ... then kids can choose a topic they are personally interested in regardless of sex.
What I would say is, if you want to change it, offer to help. Say you are happy to rewrap/relabel any time before the next fair. Nothing worse than people who tell volunteers how to do stuff then wander off!

AJPTaylor · 24/03/2018 08:41

well.......
agree in principle.
but if i had a kid that liked the flower fairies at least id have had a 50/50 chance of getting something reasonable.
back in the last century when i was a kid i always used to pick from the boys lucky dip despite being a girl. better chance of something i would like.

Glittermakeseverythingbetter · 24/03/2018 08:39

I worked on a lucky dip stall at my school fair, where there was a boy bin and a girl bin. Only one girl asked if she could dip into the boy bin. The rest were quite happy to stick to their allocated bins. I don't think some of the boys at our school would be overly impressed with a pink butterfly pencil topper! One of the boys prizes contained a pink balloon, and he asked if he could swap.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 24/03/2018 08:32

I would have done nothing. People know their child's likes and dislikes and if you think your child would like something traditionally associated with boys you can encourage them to choose one.

If someone had re-labelled books to B&G and my son had come away with a book about fairies he'd have been gutted and I'd have been quite cross.

Some people follow traditions and it is not your place to take away that choice.