Still cross about stall at primary school Spring Fair...WWYD?

Santa once gave DS a skipping rope and a dolly when he was in year 2. He wasn't very impressed and have them to his cousin.

He was never a guns and weaponry kid but maybe a little lego character or colour n g in boom would have done the trick.

Yes, lots of boys would be disappointed in a fairy book, but that's part of the fun of having the book wrapped up, surely.

DS1 would have been equally disappointed with dinosaurs or fairies as he only liked things with wheels.

DD had leaned by the age of 6yo to choose the "boy" option with things like this.

I think having a word with the teachers was sufficient, they can pass on your thoughts to the PTA.

DS doesn't much like books so gave his to big brother.

Oops! wandered into a topic where no one wants my opinion anyway.

The point of the stall was 'Don't judge a book by it's cover'. They were being encouraged to step outside their usual areas of interest.

True, but there's a difference between "outside their usual areas of interest" and "something they actively dislike". I too would have been gutted to get a book about fairies at that age tbh.

FWIW DS is now awake and apparently he doesn't like fairies "because they don't exist". I pointed out that talking trains don't exist either, but that's different "because trains do exist". 🤷🏼‍♀️

Tbf his primary days were a few years ago now.

My son would be fucked off with a book about cars because he's not interested in them.

CapnHaddock get off your high horse, we've all seen the video, my son likes dinosaurs and cars and monster trucks and superheroes, his favourite colour is pink, he likes to watch My Little Pony and wants to take up ballet. He might be pleased with a My Little Pony book, but not one about Barbie. Therefore, we'd pick a book labelled 'B' as I know there's a broader range of things in that category that he'd be interested in. It's not bigotry.

Another way it could be done is in four or so bins with genre:
History
Fantasy
Action adventure
Animals
Others

Exactly - that is how bookshops categorise books and bookshops don't have girls and boys sections (least not the ones I shop in)

nogrip - "That goes for either sex - if a girl is more into space and monsters and cars, the she can choose a book marked B"

Why are space and monsters and cars automatically marked B though?

I was given a climbing frame for my birthday as a child, must have been about six or so, and spent all my time jumping off the top of it practicing having no gravity because I wanted to go into space.

Space is not a 'boys thing'.

Horror is my favourite book genre. Monsters aren't a 'boys thing' either.

I drive a car.

This would drive me nuts too OP. Everyday sexism.
The whole school fair stuff has been quite eye opening to me. Not to mention that 99.9% of all the volunteer work at our school is done by women. Where are the dads helping out? SAHMs and working mothers both help out so it’s not just about who can take time off paid work and that not being open to the Dads as an option.

This is about policing masculinity. Girls might like fairies but can be interested in a book about trains. But we have to teach boys that a book about fairies is kryptonite to them and they must never ever touch it. They pick that message up pretty quickly especially when we bend over backwards never to put them in the danger zone.

Exactly this -

Boys can't like fairies.. unless that fairy is a male who does kung-fu
Boys can't like dolls.... unless that doll is a male one dressed as a soldier
Boys can't have a toy buggy... but they can have a toy cart
Boys can't have a toy kitchen... but they can have a toy workstation
Boys can't have a toy hoover... but they can have a toy lawnmower

We're doing this to the boys, and it harms the girls, because the message the boys hear is that their stuff is better, and girls stuff sucks.

Even though it's all the same - it's all dolls, it's all containers on wheels, it's all something you push along that pops balls or blows bubbles, but fragile masculinity won't let us name them as anything less 'manly'

Primary school is exactly the place to challenge stereotypes!!
Hesterton's suggestion is spot on

When I think about this topic, I think that on one hand, yes, we do have too many 'boy' and 'girl' clothes and toys. It's good that there are more gender neutral choices. I tend to see under 2s in them most.

I also think that pre-schoolers and primary age children are discovering if they are boys or girls. It's one of those key things when they realise and realise there are boys and girls in the world (not interested in transfer topics here) - and one of the out workings of that, is they are keen for people to know too that they are boys or girls and often to associate with other boys or girls. One of the ways they do this is very simple...it's by associating themselves with things girls or boys tend to like - so fairies or pink or whatever. And when you see very very small children making choices, you'll often see those who haven't been exposed much to the idea of gender colours, choosing the things we often associate with boys or girls....perhaps it's because they see others do it.

So I know there is a bit if a chicken and egg situation here, of cause and effect, but being in an totally gender bias free world for small children is impossible. Most boys won't be thrilled with a princess or fairy note book and many girls won't be thrilled with a football rubber. And those are things that lots of girls and then boys will like. Do we deny them those things and just put in some bland non gender biased stuff, like a green pencil or a packet of sweets to avoid this issue? I don't know. By the age of 6 or 7, it seems like it's too late.....but I don't know when or if it is even possible,mor actually desirable to totally remove the sense of gender difference.

But I agree that the name of the stall was a rather ironic. If it hadn't been named that, perhaps it wouldn't have been such as issue. Anything which involves choosing a surprise which is wrapped tends to be labelled boy, girl or both for the same reasons - think presents from Father Christmas too when you visit him. Perhaps the answer is always give books of a neutral theme.

But lots of girls absolutely love a bit of pink. Should it all be denied?

I've just asked DS (9yrs, though has SN & is a few years younger socially) if given the choice, would he prefer a book about trucks or fairies? He said trucks, and his reason is ' in case it had Monster trucks'.
I asked DD (5yrs) the same question, and she choose fairies 'because they're lovely'.

I asked them if they would like both the books. DS certainly didn't want the fairy book, yet DD did want both. Ds says he just wasn't interested in fairies.

I've bought all of them up with the same toys; tea sets / teddy bears / dollies / cars / trains / dress up, and the same books. I've no idea why they both made the 'traditional' choice.
I'd ask eldest DS, except he's having a lay in and is nearly 16yrs, so doubt he'll want either book.

This is do easily avoided if they don't have books about fairies but instead have all the other books in the universe. Because let's be honest - girls are fine with cars and dinosaurs and trucks. It's boys' parents recoiling from fairies like they can catch the girl just by looking

The truth is, it was a way of getting rid of all the shit books that NO ONE wanted when they could see the cover, and look inside.

I bet every book was a disappointment in its own way.

Waste of paper wrapping them up.

I was thinking about what we read to our son. I remember he got Martin Waddel's Little Bear books, Farmer Duck and Owl Babies which he loved, loads of (really boring but he loved them) Apple Tree Farm (?) and Postman Pat, a really lovely series about Percy the Park Keeper. And so on

We moved on to children's classics like Winnie the Pooh (cue husband telling me endlessly how funny it was - yes I know dear), Charlotte ' s Web, (big hit) Narnia (miss) Wind in the Willows, loads of children's versions of Greek, Roman and Norse myths, Oscar Wilde's fairy stories , Hans Andersen ( he really like a gorgeous version of The Snow Queen illustrated by PJ Lynch and Grimm. (The liking for fairy stories and myths meant that as a teenage boy he read and enjoyed Angela Carter's The Bloody Chamber and Heroes and Villains)

I would never have thought of buying him books for boys

Having said that I don't think I have ever met a female adult reader who enjoys Ernest Hemingway, Roth, Mailer and similar grand men of American literature.

Not quite this same thing but you might be interested in this (link is to YouTube).

This woman and her daughter looked at a large bookshelf and removed the books.

First they removed books with no male characters (3 books), then with no female characters (73 books), then books which have female characters who don't speak in the book, then took the books about princesses away.

They're left with a small handful of books left on the shelf. It's a video to promote another book, Goodnight Stories for Rebel Girls, but it's quite startling to watch how quickly that bookshelf empties once they start looking for interesting female characters who speak.

The arguments I've had with my mother because I've bought my son a 'girls' book. Clarice Bean is a girls book apparently. Doesn't matter that he enjoys the books. I made the bookseller in Waterstones laugh by pointing out you read with your eyes not your ovaries.

Surely the idea of not judging a book by it's cover is to get something you wouldn't normally choose and give it a go? As long as it was at the right reading level, which I'm sure they could do in a school.

They could have written the suggested year group on the book, or the reading band level they thought might enjoy it.

I agree with hesterton.

Another way it could be done is in four or so bins with genre:
History
Fantasy
Action adventure
Animals
Others

This. Just colour code or sort by roughly what it’s aboit. So blue is space, green is nature, whatever.

This is about policing masculinity. Girls might like fairies but can be interested in a book about trains. But we have to teach boys that a book about fairies is kryptonite to them and they must never ever touch it. They pick that message up pretty quickly especially when we bend over backwards never to put them in the danger zone.

Wigeon - absolutely agree that you should raise this at the next PTA. If they're going to go to the trouble of wrapping the books up, then they shouldn't stick them in sex boxes.

It's a bit like a raffle really. I've often won a prize of something I didn't particularly want or like. So what? You just give it to someone who does

That doesn't give me the right to deny my son his choices if they fall in line with gender stereotypes, so you certainly have no right to.
The point of the stall was 'Don't judge a book by it's cover'. They were being encouraged to step outside their usual areas of interest.

*if a girl is more into space and monsters and cars, the she can choose a book marked B

And we wonder why teenage girls are coming out as trans boys in droves... we've literally been telling them they have to choose to identify as a boy to express an interest in anything to do with science, tech, monsters, things that are not pink and covered in glitter!* HEAR HEAR!!

Part of the problem is that the books themselves are polarised by gender stereotypes - flower fairies versus dinosaur cove.

JK Rowling and MG Leonard both wrote under gender-neutral presentations of their names to ensure their books had universal appeal. My DD is an admirer of female authors but these two fall short of her benchmark as the main characters are male.

My son would be fucked off with a book about cars because he's not interested in them.

Time to dust off this video again - it's only 3 minutes' long - for those of you who think what your boys and girls like is innate: www.facebook.com/bbctwo/videos/10155359731070659/

Your daughter should have picked from the B section or B + G.

Genuinely don't see what your problem is?

Maybe next time you could volunteer and put the world to rights...

I can't get too bothered.

When my dd was little she would have picked the B book because she knew (and I knew) she hated pink and princesses and would want the chance of a more interesting book to her. We shopped in the 'boy' clothes section fir the same reason without much angst.

I'm guessing the B+G books were generally gender neutral like Famous Five or Harry Potter etc?

My dd is now 13. Still owns no skirts or dresses but flirts with a bit of mascara and has a strong developing feminist mind. She still very much a girl. I was just never very fussy about this kind of thing.

*if a girl is more into space and monsters and cars, the she can choose a book marked B

And we wonder why teenage girls are coming out as trans boys in droves... we've literally been telling them they have to choose to identify as a boy to express an interest in anything to do with science, tech, monsters, things that are not pink and covered in glitter!*

Yes! Exactly this!

And the other way round. My son is constantly being told at school (by other children) that he is a 'girl' because he loves fairies and pink and glitter. It upsets him, he has told me categorically he does not want to be a girl, he is very happy as a boy, he wants to be a boy, a boy who likes pink.