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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do I fill in this form about ‘gender identity’?

108 replies

53rdWay · 23/03/2018 10:30

Have to complete a form for work. One of the questions is this:

Gender identity
1)
a) I live and work in the same gender role to that assigned to me at birth
b) I live and work in the opposite gender role to that assigned at my birth
c) prefer not to say.

a) my gender identity is the same as that assigned to me at birth
b) my gender identity is the opposite to that assigned to me at birth
c) prefer not to say.

This is a web form. One of the answers must be ticked, & there is no space for comments. So I could tick box c) for both - but I would indeed prefer to say exactly what my problem is with these questions!

Am thinking of refusing to do it and sending back a brief explanation of what my problem is with this (not least that we’re in an area that has had big problems with recruiting/promoting women - thank heavens for all those women who battled their way through rather than working in the gender roles assigned to them! FFS.)

What would you say?

OP posts:
PerfectlyDone · 23/03/2018 13:42
Grin
TheGoldenBough · 23/03/2018 13:37

They appear to have only offered 2 'genders' as suggested by their use of the word 'opposote'.

You could ask them which 2 of they 112 genders they mean.

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 23/03/2018 13:15

Or yes I would go down Knee’s route and ask for a description of the two genders and perhaps the meaning of man or woman.

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 23/03/2018 13:14

I’d refuse to fill it out on the basis that I only recognise gender as a social construct. If they would like to send me a form regarding my sex and biology I’d be happy to fill it in.

They form is erasing your protected characteristics.

SuitedandBooted · 23/03/2018 12:35

I would refuse, and say why - nobody is "assigned a gender".

We must stop going along with this bullshit

Kneedeepinunicorns · 23/03/2018 12:34

I'd contact and in a bewildered tone ask for a description please of the two gender roles on offer: are they talking clothes, split of household chores, hobbies, hair length, make up choices: you need to see the two role boxes they would like people to define themselves against. That ought to shut them up since it's impossible to do without major recourse to stereotypes. If they then send you a list you have all kinds of options including who wrote the list, is it subjective, is this compared to national standards, what national guidance are they following about what the 'role' of each 'gender' is seen to be?

If they get past all that (they won't), you can then explain you don't identify with either role OR a trans identity either, but you do have a biological sex, and watch their heads explode.

This crap all completely relies on people just going along with the open secret that everyone knows what a woman and a man is and there's no such thing as 'gender roles' that people 'choose'. There's biological sex and personal choice and that's it.

LangCleg · 23/03/2018 12:28

This is the whole problem, we are forced by this tick box Stonewall imposed monitoring to submit to this coercive supervision.

Yes. I mean, had they asked are you on the transgender spectrum? I presume you would have had no problem answering? You can just say no, I am not.

The framing of the question is that you must have a gender identity. It's like having the religion question as Are you Protestant or Catholic? when you're Jewish, or Muslim or Sikh or atheist. You're coerced into entering a false categorisation of yourself.

I do not have a gender identity. I do not believe anybody has a gender identity. I believe people have a sex, a sexuality and a personality. Why should I have to describe myself in terms of something I don't believe exists?

PerfectlyDone · 23/03/2018 12:25

FFS.

I'd refuse too - send it back, explaining your reasons.

'Gender assigned at birth' is a phrase that is only relevant in the vanishingly small number of cases in which babies are born with ambiguous external genitals. It is an anachronism dating back to times before DNA testing when many of these babies would have been assigned 'girl' at birth and had surgery done asap (because, for obvious reasons it is easier to fashion some kind of a vaginal opening than a convincing penis), leading to all sorts of misery and hardship when puberty hit (testosterone imprinting happens in the womb, so those with an XY chromosome assigned 'girl' at birth did struggle later on').
This is why the small number of true intersex babies now born, DNA testing is standard and provided their genitals are functional i.e. allow them to void their bladder, any possible surgery will be deferred until the child is old enough to at least understand what may be happening to them or be old enough to have legal capacity to consent.

No adult human male or female with the appropriate set of chromosomes has been 'assigned' anything at birth.

Like I said, FFS Angry

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 23/03/2018 12:19

Purpose of the form is monitoring diversity and inclusion performance of the organisation I think. The gender question isn’t the only one on it, there’s also some others I have no problem with. AFAIK they have collected information before on protected characteristics, including sex and also gender reassignment.

This is the whole problem, we are forced by this tick box Stonewall imposed monitoring to submit to this coercive supervision. It's all very policing and invasive. Suggest they have a voluntary submission, if they want to count who does have a difference in those terms, which many don't even care about or understand, they can make it self reporting. It's not mandatory for everyone to be categorised like this. Not everyone needs to be rigidly divided up by the Stonewall categories.

TheGoldenBough · 23/03/2018 12:08

Quite Errol

And what happens if you adopt some aspects of your gender role at home and work, but not others.

Or if you adopt something approximating the gender role at home (in your life) but not at work.

ErrolTheDragon · 23/03/2018 12:04

WTF does 'live and work in same/different gender role' even mean?Confused

Lovesagin · 23/03/2018 11:26

Print it off and correct it with a simple and factual "sex - male or female" and pop it in the internal mail.

whoputthecatout · 23/03/2018 11:24

sorry - should read "does not provide"

whoputthecatout · 23/03/2018 11:23

If you tick prefer not to say that is an implicit acceptance that you accept gender identity is a real thing and you just prefer not to say.

This means the TAs are demolishing biological sex a brick at a time.

I would write and say it does provide an answer which fits what you are i.e. female sex.

Regularhuey · 23/03/2018 11:15

I'm sure you don't want more work load, but I'd email the HQ to complain that they've assumed you have a "gender identity" when you reject gender.

You are a female and they need to understand that female means something. Otherwise they are erasing your existence.

Regularhuey · 23/03/2018 11:11

Why are they erasing your biological sex?

Winewinewinegin · 23/03/2018 11:02

Also ask for what you do want on the form and say why

53rdWay · 23/03/2018 11:01

Purpose of the form is monitoring diversity and inclusion performance of the organisation I think. The gender question isn’t the only one on it, there’s also some others I have no problem with. AFAIK they have collected information before on protected characteristics, including sex and also gender reassignment.

OP posts:
leghairdontcare · 23/03/2018 10:54

What is the purpose of the form? Would biological sex have been captured at another time and they are now realising that they don't have any info on trans employees?

In my institution we are asked to declare biological sex and then answer a question similar to 2 (is your gender identity the same as your sex).

As gdpr comes in, it might be worth asking why they need this info and what it will be used for. Also, if you have more than 250 employees, how they will report on the gender pay gap if they are not recording biological sex.

S0ph1a · 23/03/2018 10:50

I couldn’t answer it because I wasn’t assigned a gender role at birth

Speedy85 · 23/03/2018 10:48

I would refuse to complete it.

Gender is a social construct which has been and is still used to oppress women.

We should not be buying into this nonsense and legitimising it.

TheGoldenBough · 23/03/2018 10:47

I would refuse to fill it in on the basis that:

I didn't accept the gender role assigned to me at birth. In fact I've spent my life getting cross about the restrictions and expectations it places upon me and fighting against them. It caused huge problems for me with my parents growing up and was a contributing factor in the breakdown of my marriage.

I haven't accepted the opposite gender role either.

And I wouldn't prefer not to say because that would be completely misinterpreted and I'm not ashamed of, or trying to hide the fact, I'm a woman.

53rdWay · 23/03/2018 10:45

Surely the 'prefer not to say' option exists for people like you...?

Well no, given that I do very much prefer to say.

(“When did you stop beating your wife? a) years ago b) still haven’t stopped c) prefer not to say.”)

OP posts:
safariboot · 23/03/2018 10:43

The "equality and diversity" section on a job application is normally optional and should never be part of the application proper. (Ie the HR person who decides who is coming for interview should never see that bit.)

Ihatemyclients · 23/03/2018 10:43

Surely the 'prefer not to say' option exists for people like you...?

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