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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mumsnet inspired camping discussed in legal blog

38 replies

justicewomen · 22/03/2018 23:38

www.oldsquare.co.uk/news-and-media/articles/that-friday-feeling

Hopefully the EHRC will finally wake up to the fact that they need to start thinking about this clash of protected characteristics

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Adarajames · 23/03/2018 01:38

I only came across to the thread as I was excited at idea of MN feminist camping leaves disillusioned and disappointed

Jon66 · 23/03/2018 01:25

Justicewomen on what grounds and how could a woman have an indirect sex discrimination claim against a service provider In the circumstances you describe?

Lefthanddown · 23/03/2018 01:02

It's interesting that the report notes the changes to the GRA may be influenced by cost savings by reducing the need of proof.

One of the things I noticed at the weekend when reading through the submissions for the consultation, from professionals and individuals was the difficulty accessing medical, therapeutic and social support, due to lack of trained professionals and cost of treatments available on the NHS.

Part of me wondered if the changes were a cheap way of jumping to the end of any transition process ie appease trans people in attaining their end goal, without considering the wider impact on women and children

DairyisClosed · 23/03/2018 00:34

Also I am extremely disappointed that this thread isn't about camping.

DairyisClosed · 23/03/2018 00:33

Surely the answer is to stop this positive discrimination bullshit. All it dies is disguise ways in which our education system/business culture/society in geberal let's women down resulting in women being unable to attain these roles on their own merit. It's not feminism. It's not progress for women's rights. It's double think. It's an attempted cover up of the fact that women are regularly and systematically failed. It's patronising. And it's downright lazy. We could actually address the reasons why women fail to compete against there male counterparts or we could just make it look like women are making progress in this respect when they aren't.

Jon66 · 23/03/2018 00:25

On what grounds in your penultimate paragraph.

HerFemaleness · 23/03/2018 00:23

I'm disappointed now. Mumsnet inspired camping sounds amazing, I bet there'd be copious amounts of gin around the campfire.

justicewomen · 23/03/2018 00:22

There seems to be a potential clash between the right not to be be discriminated against on grounds of transgender and right not to be discriminated on grounds of sex (and I mean sex as defined by sections 11 and 212 of the Equality Act so biological women and those with GRC, not those just starting or going through transition)

So for example take a scholarship to encourage women onto STEM subjects. A transitioning transgender women, if prevented from entering, may argue that they are a women so if they are excluded it is indirect transgender discrimination.

A biological women, if overlooked in favour of transgender women, may argue that the purpose of the award is to overcome the barriers to STEM brought by years of social conditioning and opportunities denied to girls which they would have (and a transgender women brought up as a boy/man would have not had such barriers).

I suspect the clash will actually come with regard to single sex sports activities or service provision like hospital wards which women campaigned for years to achieve. If, as we see from the actions of the Girl Guides, the British Swim Association, and service providers like Top Shop, transgender women are permitted access to these spaces even if they have not physically transitioned. There are obvious concerns such as the social conventions about public nudity in, for example, sex-segregated swimming pool changing rooms.

Currently the campaigning by transgender activists fail to see that women may themselves have an indirect sex discrimination claim against a service provider who (by allowing in physically intact males into single sex locations) prevent them from using the service, because as biological women they have concerns for their privacy or safety.

There have been other clashes of protected characteristics, such as the Ladele (marriage registrar) case or the "gay cake" case. Ultimately the courts or Parliament will decide who will prevail. I cannot predict how this will play out

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ScreamingValenta · 23/03/2018 00:03

I was also intrigued by the incongruous thread title!

OvaHere · 23/03/2018 00:01

It's all over the feminism section as to why there is a clash Jon but you know that already. Perhaps you could stop being so disingenuous.

SubsidisedVowels · 22/03/2018 23:58

I was intrigued by the Mumsnet camping OP! Grin

Jon66 · 22/03/2018 23:55

Perhaps you could explain why you think there is a clash?

justicewomen · 22/03/2018 23:39

Arghh I did not read the title - it should read campaign

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