How to make love to a trans woman

Well done Roger and Mumsnet for getting that deleted so quickly.

Reported. #TGLWGH

Because they can

Yes, exactly. I think that's a big reason many are so ignorant/not understanding, those things are no issue for most of us.

I heard about that, infuriating. There is absolutely no coincidence there are pretty much no issues with TIFs and the entire abuse is TIMs towards women.

And that is interesting, I for one would for sure not let them pressure me into anything. Then again, I don't receive anywhere near the abuse and gaslighting that lesbian get, so that has to be viewed from a different perspective.

That's true. I'm just conscious of the way men view it differently. Because they can.

Again, i'm not having a go. Just observing.

Michfest for instance. Shut down due to transactivist violence, after running annually for 40 years. A woman only gathering.

I can't ever imagine it happening the other way round.

Women don't have the power. (Or the inclination, tbh).

GHardy's right about it pimping out TIMs as kinky sex dolls. All in all the writer has a revolting attitude toward women and doesn't mind exploiting TIMs if it benefits him/his site/his bank balance.

No sympathy for him at all. I totally reserve my right to ridicule and laugh at him. O+

Datun

Well, I am fully aware of what the likes of Riley Dickhead Dennis get up to, so I understand where you are coming from. I have however come to react with laughter more often than not, rather than outrage at the nonsense some of these people come up with.

And that is interesting, I for one would for sure not let them pressure me into anything. Then again, I don't receive anywhere near the abuse and gaslighting that lesbian get, so that has to be viewed from a different perspective.

The ones using really crude language, describing someone's body in horrible and graphic terms.

I know, I didn't think it was very nice describing women as frigid and that their proportions weren't as good or their vaginas as fresh as transwomens. That's what you meant right?

describing someone's body in horrible and graphic terms

Do you mean my post about laser hair removal?

I did not mean to capitalise that 'A'!

I spat out the water I was drinking. They're trying to get people to fuck TIMs by painting it as "naughty" or "kinky" or "special"? I can't...this is too funny. I can't finish reading that.

I understand you, a man, finds it funny. Or perhaps funny is the wrong word? Usually if something is funny, we keep reading it. Because it amuses us.

Women, lesbians, who are being pressured into sex with transwomen, don't find it funny. They find it scary and devaluing.

I'm not having a go. I'm just interested in the different reaction from A man whose sexual orientation is questioned, rather than a woman whose sexual orientation is questioned.

( unless I've got your sexual orientation wrong?)

Ok I read more...hahahahahahahahaha I can't stop laughing, is this parody? Surely TRAs would be up in arms about this, this is so fucked up sexualizing, fetishizing TIMs

"...you get to connect with your animal side during the whole episode" - this is basically advertising TIMs as sex doll fantasies for men.

"Most men on this planet will not experience the transgender sex experience due to a combination of social conditioning and internalized inhibitions; they are missing out big time. Sex with a transgender woman is an exhilarating experience. The whole experience is further enhanced due to the novelty factor and the knowledge that most men will go to the grave without experiencing this “forbidden” pleasure."

I spat out the water I was drinking. They're trying to get people to fuck TIMs by painting it as "naughty" or "kinky" or "special"? I can't...this is too funny. I can't finish reading that.

Agreed with you, picklemepopcorn. It's the behaviour that's the issue and I'd hate some of the non-TRA trans people to see some of the remarks.

To me this article and the Paris Lee's one is dripping with sexual inexperience and frustration. And they're taking it out on women, just like MRAs and MGTOW do. I was initially disgusted, but I now feel a bit sorry for them too. A little bit.

I think what is left is all acceptable. S9me of the deleted posts were over the line.

I'm happy to laugh at men. I'm not happy to join in the ridiculing and belittling of anyone. The original article was indeed disgusting- but also pathetic and unconvincing .

I wouldn't want to descend to the same level. We have no need to become the harpies they think feminists are.

And yeah, I don't mean by that that women laughing at men only do so as a political act, sometimes they are just being nasty and cruel.

But still....

Sorry I mean women's biggest fear of men, is that they'll kill us.

I'm uncomfortable about the tone of some of the posts.

But as I recently reminded myself on another thread, it is absolutely essential that women reserve the right to laugh at men, even cruelly, just as they laugh at us.

Women are constantly being mocked by men, just ask any skinny or overweight teenage girl, middle aged woman or old woman how often a man has said something vile to her about her looks, not once in her lifetime, but constantly. Men are really horribly cruel to women about our appearance and no-one notices the shocking cruelty of it. When women do it to men, the way we sometimes do here on Mumsnet, it is noticed and condemned and women feel deeply uncomfortable about it.

Because the other way round, it is taboo. That aposite quote, that men 's biggest fear of women, is that we'll laugh at them, while women's biggest fear of men, is that we'll kill them, has actually set up a scenario where when we laugh at men, it's almost perceived as on the same level as a man killing us. In fact, when you get a man murdering his wife because she laughed at him, the Daily Mail et al will show very clearly where their sympathies lie.

So I'd just like women to remember that, when they chastise other women for laughing at men. Laughing at men is a political issue.

'The ones using really crude language, describing someone's body in horrible and graphic terms'

This extends to the original article, and indeed the ongoing misogyny and body horror of TRAs in describing women's sexuality and genitalia - supposedly the sex they want to join in full. Privately, I think it's compete with. I remember the furore at Suzanne Moore's article about the appearance of a Brazilian Trans being unattainable for women.

It is indeed sad to get past the PR and find out that a surgically created vagina is a poor substitute in function, if not in outward appearance. Same with the FTM penis, I understand. You wouldn't think it if you went by how the transitions are presented to the world.

Ginger that's very eloquently put.

I have cried over the stories of transwomen too. Venus Xtravaganza was one of the first people I ever came across who was trans. She was murdered in New York in the early 80s and to see her speak, in the film Paris is Burning....KNOWING how her life ended before the film was even released....she was so vulnerable and obviously not a male though she'd not had an operation, would break the heart of anyone with sensitivity.

I watched a very harrowing account of a transwoman who was killed as a result of being trans.

It was disgusting and abhorrent. This person, who had never felt aligned with their Birth sex transitioned at 18, used hormones etc to achieve a semblance of acceptance of themselves.

It seems they were murdered by men who took exception to the fact that although they presented as feminine, they had been born male.

Utterly horrific. I wept as I watched and understood how utterly distraught this person and their family and friends must have felt.

Not a single natal woman was responsible for this.

I just wish, more than anything is that trans women would embrace their own narrative, and understand by doing so, that natal women would (as far as I've come to know) utterly support their struggle. Because we've been there.

The ones using really crude language, describing someone's body in horrible and graphic terms. The most of the TRAs we feel angry toward don't even have the surgery. When we talk like that it makes it a hostile and distressing place for all transsexuals, including those who have no quarrel with us and who we claim to care about.

Another one here thinking many of these comments are too unpleasant and mean-spirited. I wouldn't want the FWR board on MN to be judged by this thread.