Pregnant trans men Guardian article

her boys were taught to pee sitting down

Sorry missed this earlier - why would anyone do this when men can wee so efficiently standing up?

It's an advantage in a culture where it's not socially acceptable to display your bottom in public, and also explains why women tend to wear skirts in societies that don't have access to toilets.

The ones who do have access to free contraception and abortion, are financially independant, who are educated and have feminist leanings; why are they still doing as much of the shit work as more vulnerable women.
Isn't this another of the many unknowns that you object to being stated as fact?
We can't know if these women define their work as shit, nor if they are the only ones on diaper duty.

sexnotgender.com/gender-identity-legislation-and-the-erosion-of-sex-based-legal-protections-for-females/

A link to the 2011 letter can be found here I think?

Stillscreaming can you link to your materials?

I suspect others who are catching up have recognized Stillscreaming's tell. Anything that is disagreeable is declared to be unknown and unknowable despite of overwhelming evidence.
It was amusing until they started lying to defame another, instead of to self promote.

Someone mentioned brains. My brain is as female as the rest of my bodily organs (ovaries, uterus, heart, skin, liver etc etc) because it developed as they did under the influence of female hormones as a result of my XX chromosome configuration.
Funny that I do Maths, have a good sense of spatial awareness and prefer thrillers to romance. But that's a lady brain for you - unpredictable.

It's like arguing with those people who insist that the world started 6000 years ago. And that men (never women) walked with dinosaurs

@Elendon. The people who believe the world began 6000 years ago also believe that men and women have biological innate gender identities. They argue that it strains the humanity of both men and women if we act contrary to our gender roles.

When men use terms like 'love' and 'pet', as feminists, we recognise it for the belittling misogyny it is. When women do it to other women, I consider how much of that misogyny they've internalised, how by aping their oppressors, they show their level of submission to the patriarchy''.

Have you considered the possibility I thought you were a bloke.

Do women do the 'shit work' because we're biologically predisposed to it, or do we do the 'shit work' because we are oppressed by men?

Regarding heart attacks and sex differences is vitally important and in no way transphobic.

www.tht.org.uk/sexual-health/Sex,-reproduction-and-gender/Trans-women/HIV-and-STIs

www.nhs.uk/conditions/sexually-transmitted-infections-stis/

People need to take care of their health and they also need to take care of their sexual health, especially if they are active.

Having an STI is not shameful. It can happen to anyone. However, sex is more important than gender when it comes to a successful outcome.

Also, imagine that somebody does find a gene for ripping arms off dolls, and imagine they find that gene in people who have been identified at birth as women because they having uteruses and vaginas.

How do you go from observing that this gene is also present in women to deciding that the women are actually men?

Even if you believe that gender exists, why would you need to group anybody according to gender? What is it that you are grouping?

^^This.

a pandemic not an endemic.

There are limited public policy reason for segregating groups of people. One is safety. Another is to fight inequality eg AWS. All segregation must be tied to these objectives. If gender then what is the justification? That is what we need to unpick when we design a law. It is not the same in all scenarios

Trans males say they face discrimination and must therefore be allowed on AWS

They do but it is not the same as that faced by natal females. Because people do not read them as female. They gave trans specific discrimination

Disabled people also face discrimination. Not the same type as females. Gay men too. But if the nature of the discrimination is irrelevant, surely these groups should all be allowed on to AWS too? No one argues this.

Regarding the spread of disease, for example a virus and it's an endemic, is to do with age.

Some may argue this is not the case regarding sti's but the spread of these sexual diseases is specifically sex and not gender.

Gender has nought to do with pure science and all to do with social science. The two may conflate now and again regarding disease spread but gender? No.

Even if you believe that gender exists, why would you need to group anybody according to gender? What is it that you are grouping?

biological innate gender identity?

WTF?

It's like arguing with those people who insist that the world started 6000 years ago. And that men (never women) walked with dinosaurs.

The world isn't flat, even flat earthers will say that they have many supporters around the globe.

.... by which I mean that the gender thing is not entirely an evidence-free zone.

Totally agree that the “pet” thing needs to go.

It’s (otherwise) a good point though.

There are quite a few specific behaviours that can be shown not to be inherent.

Why do rational, intelligent women collude with this?

Because people have strong cultural beliefs and prejudices. It's one reason why people can be unreliable witnesses and also why it's uncomfortable for me to use a hairdryer in a bathroom even if I know rationally that it is safe.

So much Mimi on this thread.

Thanks Rat.

Do you think pet, that our earliest cave dwelling ancestors picked up sticks and pretended to shoot each other?

When men use terms like 'love' and 'pet', as feminists, we recognise it for the belittling misogyny it is. When women do it to other women, I consider how much of that misogyny they've internalised, how by aping their oppressors, they show their level of submission to the patricharcy.

Girls were cuddled more and shown the soft toys, later the adults would claim the child showed a preference for those toys. When the adults were told actually the child was a boy, they acknowledged that they were acting on an assumption that a girl would like certain toys.

I am familiar with that research and while it's fascinating, I think that too much emphasis has been put on the impact on the child. I think that it would be, at least, as interesting to consider why adult women behave in that way. Why do rational, intelligent women collude with this?

The ones who do have access to free contraception and abortion, are financially independant, who are educated and have feminist leanings; why are they still doing as much of the shit work as more vulnerable women.

I'm not sure what you classify as 'shit work'. In my experience women and men who live together before children divide household work pretty evenly.

However, if you mean why do women tend to be responsible for childcare, in the UK that is because until very recently there was no such thing as paternity leave or shared parental leave.

Have two or three children in the space of 10 years, take at least 18 months off along the way and it will impact on your career. One partner works more to make up for the financial loss and their career advances. It becomes logical for the less well paid partner to take on more domestic responsibility.

Why are men not stepping up more now that shared parental leave exists? Because of social prejudice. However things change. My grandmother thought it was 'unmanly' for my father to make up bottles of baby milk. My husband (before shared parental leave) took 6 months off to care for my son when I returned to work.