Why are TIMs colonising womanhood when they hate us?

Sweary, I'd also like to thank you and Amy for getting this out there. It must be so frustrating when you feel you're not being allowed to get your points across and you're treated differently to the vulnerable TIMs and you're having to defend yourself over and over against accusations of hysteria and "but men won't do that!" Especially when you're speaking to a male interviewer so have to sugarcoat the fact that men as a class have oppressed and hurt women for years otherwise you'll push him even further to the other side of the debate. You're both doing such a good job though, and staying so calm and unhysterical that you'll definitely be reaching an awful lot of people.

I think as others have said, many of them are not very mentally stable. Trans does often seem to go hand in hand with childhood trauma. They deflect their self-hatred onto the easiest and most socially acceptable target, which is women.

(Prepare for a NATALT backlash)

The rates of offending are quite telling. Behaviour patterns in general are difficult to assess, but the fact that TIMs offend at the same rate as men** suggest to me that it's likely many other behaviours remain the same.

The "competitive womaning" I've seen (TIM posts that "terfs hate us because we look better than them") is quite masculine behaviour. They hate us and therefore assume we hate them. They look for spurious reasons, even if they make no sense to most terfs, who typically probably aren't that interested in their appearance. From the anger they show, I think some of them are simply jealous that however much effort they go to, they are still less womanly than the butchest of terfs.

**journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Stay as calm as you can, Sweary. Goodness knows, I understand and share your rage. But I suspect one of the reasons you are doing quite so well is that you are pretty and quiet and not remotely like the man-eating picture of feminists that the media likes to portray.

Be calm but be forceful. Point out the ways you’ve been sidelined before on air and point them out again if they happen.

But be calm, because as soon as you lose it youve lost.

May I express my thanks and admiration for what you are doing as well 👍

And I don’t know why men hate women. I only know that they do, and that they remain a danger for it it. Their aim is not to be us here, it’s to destroy us.

I don't get why they're so desperate to be seen as women when they don't like real women either. It's a bit like someone wanting to be seen as a cyclist but never getting on a bike and slagging off all cyclists. Why not just align yourself with a different group (apart from the fact that anyone can become a cyclist where as men can't become women).
I also hate the way male interviewers give transwomen an easy ride especially when they mention mental illness. Is it because they can play up to their protective macho male stereotype where as feminists don't want men protecting us from the scary world we just want them to treat us a equals.
No-one seems to question the causality re mental illness in transsexuals either, like maybe their unhappiness with their biological body is due to believing in fixed sexual stereotypes and being afraid to challenge these and be the person they want to be in their sex. Instead they employ dysfunctional magical thinking and believe everything would be great if they became women and everyone else believed they were real women and the people they wanted to have sex with believed they were real women too. The fact that they can think this whilst wanting to retain their penises seems more bizarre.

but on the flip side of that is the added mindfuck that we actually are in touch with our masculine side too and feel no shame in having masculine traits, wearing masculine clothing or doing jobs traditionally offered to men. We are actually just in touch with what it is to be a person - without gender being involved at all. That must be really make them angry, I guess.

I agree with your whole post but this in particular makes me so grateful to the women who fought for themselves and for us. They didn't pretend to be men when they cut their hair and started wearing trousers and working outside the home. They simply wanted to be treated as full human beings. And many men, who have been on top of the heap so long and who have been taught to despise femininity, can't work in the reverse way. They can't see that they have been restricted too because theyve always been told they're the default.

I totally agree with you AreYouTerfEnough. Plus I think they often feel they are inadequate men, laughed at by other men, so their answer is to pick on people who they perceive are weaker than them, women in this case. The trouble is those pesky weak women can see them for what they are and also laugh at them and the hatred becomes all consuming.

Sorry, complete digression there.

"Why are TIMs colonising womanhood when they hate us?"

I think colonisation is about the coloniser's hatred of the colonised.

The British Government didn't create the British Empire because it loved foreigners.

I think the aggressive, fact-denying trans identifying males often bother me slightly less than the young women who back them. There's something really unpleasant about seeing women putting these men first, and displaying their own liberality and tolerance by shitting on the women who have been raped or assaulted and do feel scared of men. I need to avoid Twitter. It's doing nothing for my blood pressure.

I agree with all of the above. But I would add that they hate us because we are fully in touch with our femininity (whatever that actually means)

Unlike men we are encouraged and able to express our sensitivities, to cry, to feel emotion. We have close female bonds and friendships and we talk openly amongst ourselves. Men see that we have that ability and they want it for themselves too. but they think only way they can do that legitimately is to become a woman.

They don't just hate women, they hate masculinity too - for making them fell so shit about themselves for having feelings.

if we want men to stop hating us for being emotionally stable - they have to first look at how masculinity is treated in our society.

They might realise the problem lies with them - not with women at all.

but on the flip side of that is the added mindfuck that we actually are in touch with our masculine side too and feel no shame in having masculine traits, wearing masculine clothing or doing jobs traditionally offered to men. We are actually just in touch with what it is to be a person - without gender being involved at all. That must be really make them angry, I guess.

Life appears to be a perpetual miserable struggle for these women haters. They’re not happy, healthy people. Consumed by their hatred, they’re constantly in destruct mode which, ultimately, shortens your life as maintaining that much hate is damaging to health.

They’re pathetic individuals really. Condemned to be nothing but parodies of females.

Only people who hate themselves can hate others in such a vehement manner.

And such bad wigs

I think they hate us because they can’t keep track of us any longer. A woman can now go through her entire life without ever needing or even wanting a man. I think this is why they hate lesbians in particular.

They know that we see through them and can easily reject them now. Many men have very weak egos and just aren’t strong enough to deal with being rejected and even ridiculed by women. A person with a healthy ego doesn’t need to put others down or attack them.

I think some of them just have a plain old fetish about dressing up and donning makeup and wigs.

I'm not sure.

I don't think they want us to be like sexy pornified stereotypes. Not really. They want them to be that with no "competition" although I think it's only them who see it as a compeition TBH.

I think they want to take all the roles that appeal to them and we can do what is left (prob childbearing, shitwork, telling men how fab they are). When we try to step out of where they want us to be that's when the anger starts which is the same as all of time.

Your strength is that you are calm and rational and evidently honest! This is a Trump like cult with little grasp on reality - just delusion. It IS frustrating at the outright denial and lies - but you have both come over as so credible and it's because of your calmness and quiet authority.
Once we start to bluster and be outraged, we sound like them.

Be outraged on here but on the air, your strength is your credibility. Remember all the listeners and lurkers. They will hear frustration and anger and may interpret that as hate. But they can also hear a calm and rational voice that doesn't lie (versus this never happens) and isn't promoting hate (versus transphobic terfs) but is calmly and rationally standing up for the rights of women and children (and everybody ) to safety, privacy and dignity. You're having such an impact!

Men don't know if they want to own us, kill us, fuck us or be us.

Or all of these things at the same time.

Its their fucking problem.

They hate us because we see them. We see them and we laugh at them.
And that's what they fear.

They hate us cos they ain't us.

Yep. They look in the mirror and want to see us but they see themselves instead. The resulting rage is because we know that's what they see when they look and we won't tell them otherwise.

2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime

3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish

5th rule of misogyny: Women and feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless

8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are

9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the 'real reasons' for everything women say and do

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad

11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt mens feelings

12th rule of misogyny: Whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.

Men need to be in women's safe spaces, because men are dangerous. That's what it boils down to, isn't it?

Sweary - You are amazing
I know I would be inclined to laugh at them, but that's probably not helpful

They are just like any other man, they like women when we are agreeing with them. As soon as we disagree, or worse, say no to them, they start to hate.

They don't hate women. They hate all women that aren't pornified sterotypes of femininity. That's why. They want to be thos women and they will put up with those women and they will tolerate women who aren't those women but who will still tell they how "hawt" they are.

@SwearyG

I'll be sure to listen tonight
www.lovesportradio.com

Have just broken my no mumsnet posting at work policy to say do it calm if you can Sweary . The stereotype of emotional women is so counter productive. Don't let people use it against you. You are doing an amazing job,

Am just about to listen to you on 5 live on the iPlayer.