Why are TIMs colonising womanhood when they hate us?

Jaycee - do you understand my feeling that, though it is unfortunate for them that transwomen have to wait a few years to get the GRC before they can freely use women's facilities, it is actually part of becoming a woman - that is, we cannot just strip off to our underpants when it's hot, or do an outdoor wee, anywhere we wish, or know whether we might have a sudden onset gush of menstrual blood we hadn't anticipated, or have leaking breasts etc. etc. and this is the reality of what it is to be a woman: we have to plan and not bank on having convenient access to private space whenever needed. If transitioning men to women have to wait a while to be integrated into vulnerable spaces... well welcome to womanhood - it's not easy for any of us.

@Jayceedove do you think it would help actual gender dysphoric trans people if they could apply for some kind of a medical gender identity card. Which would confirm they are transitioning and aren't just attempting to access the wrong facilities? Or have you never been challenged and don't think it's a problem?

Jaycee I understand what you are saying and am sympathetic. But the issue that Sweary and most of the rest of us are objecting to is the idea of self-ID and the potential to abuse the system. We do know that men as a group are a risk to us. And we also know that some people are already abusing the self-ID that some organisations are already adopting.

I'm just saying that the argument that men are a potential threat to us is dismissed when women say it but not when trans women use it when used to try and further this debate. The argument cannot be valid for some sections of society but not others.

Witchbitch - I do not know Joanne circumstances as he never bothered to ask her anything meaningful either.

But if she only transitioned a year ago it will be very hard and that did come over that she was wary of spaces. We got told nothing about how she is transitioning or her physical status but that early you would assume she might still have a long way to go.

In those circumstances she probably would use single cubicle spaces wherever possible. But if she is under medical supervision and transitioning physically and towards surgery (we were given no clue by poor questioning) it is part of the treatment programme to at some point when you would be confident of not causing offence to successfully integrate in places like a women's toilet. As you would obviously do at some point post physical transition.

In that half way house you are really vulnerable these days I would expect (it was easier 45 years ago when there was hardly any awareness of transsexuals and next to none of us around).

But there comes a point where no trans woman could possibly be safe walking into a men's toilet dressed as and looking like a woman. And post surgery, of course, it would be putting yourself at risk of rape.

Without a Gender Recognition Certificate, which Joanne cannot have at this point (and only 5000 have anywhere) there would be no legal access and it would be down to tolerance and lack of identification as trans - something we cannot judge at a distance.

She appeared genuine and sincere and I wish her well, But she has a way to go and I hope she is getting the right medical help. Of which again we were told nothing.

But you were fair and courteous in return. Nobody could ask more.

Was hoping to have finished an hour or so ago at least and been listening in my PJs but am still working,

Sounds like the guy was an absolute prick from comments here though.

I think that's partly why Lucy Masuod did so well this morning - a) the presenter was a pro and b) they gave Lucy the last word.

Sweary, I will listen but whatever you feel about how the conversation went YOU are responsible for getting the conversation out there in the first place and that is HUGE.

*daughter’s
(pedant)

If he ever shows up at my daughters’ school to teach girls to “have a voice” I’ll implode

It's clearly his thing though, standing up for minorities.

I thought he got his gay thing in there to deflect criticism. Relevance? None.

Like most men I know Bore he expects a star and a sticker if he ever does anything that might benefit other people too. Lets send him a sheet of 'good boy' stickers for his valiant actions.

Oh, and having been a trans woman since 1973 and living in the area where the Yorkshire Ripper was active I learned pretty early about where not to walk and who not to make eye contact with and reasons to be fearful in appropriate circumstances.

He really has no clue.

He had an agenda. 'As a gay guy who had to sacrifice my job at the BBC for standing up for minority rights. '

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Big_Brother_17_housemates_(UK)#Andy

I listened to the show as a trans woman and think you did well to keep calm and say what you believed.

So did Joanne, though it was a shame that she has done nothing about her voice and was very inexperienced.

But the presenter was awful and let you both down by going off on his own little man rant. He totally shifted the story to him and failed as a presenter.

You and Joanne could have had an interesting discussion on point if he had let you. But he turned into all about him.

Very sad, but not at all your fault.

Given the way he led the interview surely trans women being too afraid to use men's facilities is also sexist and unfounded?

He just doesn't have a clue. If he had ANY idea how most women live their lives trying to avoid male attack I think he would have reacted very differently. #metoo hasn't got through evidently.

Must admit I don't vary my route home and will go running alone in the dark quite happily but probably wouldn't have when I lived in London. I felt the conversation got derailed in to "men are dangerous" rather than men pretending to be women to get in to women's safe areas and sports. His use of statistics was rubbish though.

Get out there the tweeters amongst you.

Nothing for you to be sorry for. He just didn't believe what you were saying.

It was a shitshow but not your fault. Bloke is woke, innit.

He moved the argument towards how offended he is and away from trans issues. Not your fault!

You did great.*Sweary
*
You are doing an AMAZING job getting this conversation out there

Same old same old, women's fears about potential harm from men is hysterical and unfounded whereas trans women's fears about the same shit is valid so move over you mean women.

Well done Sweary.

Classic NAMALT.

He just has absolutely no idea. I hope he gets lots of tweets from women saying they too act like this.

And he's sad? So his hurt feelings from having the conversation take precedence over women's safety?