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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Calling lawyers and data protection gurus

117 replies

MsBeaujangles · 21/03/2018 10:20

What is the legal situation when it comes to being placed on a published list which is claimed to be a list of 'TERFs and transphobes'?
I am thinking defamation of character comes in to play if the suggestion is that the people on the list are bigoted, incite hate and deny trans people their rights. I am on such a list and am confident that I have not said anything remotely even 'anti trans'.
I think sending Cease and Desist letters could legitimately be sent, demanding the list holder immediately cease and desist their unlawful defamation and provide prompt written reassurance within 10 days they they will cease and desist from further defamation.
Whilst the list is of Twitter names, my account is not anonymous.

Also, is there anything preventing people from applying defamation law when they are very publicly called transphobic?

OP posts:
TanquerayTickles · 21/03/2018 16:55

I have emailed the Labour legal team, my local councillor and Rochester and Strood. Lily Madigan does what she wants with impunity and there is never any comeback.

gussyfinknottle · 21/03/2018 16:17

Yes, I think shaming publicly the local party would be a good idea.

DarthArts · 21/03/2018 16:10

Tx Red - have already complained to the LP but not the local CLP nor Twitter. Yet....

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 16:08

You could start by making its Labour's problem by informing Rochester and Strood Labour Party, Labour Party complaints, making it public generally, including on twitter.

Plenty of ways to do.

gussyfinknottle · 21/03/2018 16:07

I think that the Lindqvist case has been carefully ignored by Uk jurisprudence. I really don't think the Data Protection Act will give you what you want. However, that's just my view. By all means ask the Information Commissioner. The fact that Cambridge analytica is occupying a small corner of what they do shouldn't stop you.

DarthArts · 21/03/2018 16:03

Wondering how you send a cease and desist if you are blocked Grin

DarthArts · 21/03/2018 16:01

AFIk TerfBlocker only collated the screen names and name of twitter accounts.

So for example if "Jane Smith" registered as screen name @MumNet1 with the Name MumNetUser that's what would be published.

Obviously if Jane had set up an account as @JaneS with the name Jane Smith then they would have got her name.

The list shows the age of the account, #tweets, #followers and #following.

AssassinatedBeauty · 21/03/2018 15:50

I don't use Twitter very much so am not an expert at all. Does anyone know how the TerfBlocker list collater could get hold of Twitter users real names, if they don't tweet using them?

Chocolala · 21/03/2018 15:42

It’s not it domestic purposes if she’s publishing it on the internet. There’s a case about such things (European case about some woman who published (harmless) details of a church group on the internet - think it was called Lindqvist).

People affected should send a cease and desist. But should also complain to the ICO. Though they might be a bit busy with Cambridge Analytica right now.

gussyfinknottle · 21/03/2018 15:32

If it's a list that a private individual has published as a private individual there is an exemption in the current DPA for processing for "domestic purposes " which this might cover. If your name comes up on this list in a, say, google search you could write to Google and ask it to take down the result but it won't take down the original list.
Your "best" bet is to look at other civil remedies that are not Data Protection related.
However, if this is an official (or officially sanctioned) Labour Party thing, it cannot rely on the "domestic purposes" get out clause in the current DPA.
The new GDPR has similar provisions but can only apply to processing of your personal information that goes on when that law comes into force. It is not retrospective.

CapnHaddock · 21/03/2018 15:28

I was not on terf blocker but I am on LMs list. I don't tweet in my real name and this sort of shit is why.

I could lose my job

LangCleg · 21/03/2018 15:18

It's one thing to have your own private block list but it's quite another to have one with a possibly defamatory title that you publish publicly. And, I think, depending on how you use the settings, you can also block third parties (ie anyone who follows someone you've blocked). So you're also suggesting that mere assocation with a "transphobe" makes you a "transphobe". Clearly defamatory to publish names in that way.

TanquerayTickles · 21/03/2018 15:12

I'm on there under my real name and have never tweeted nor referenced Lily on Twitter at any point until today when speaking to someone about the list.

Surely they can't just post up people's names and details on what amounts to a list of alleged 'transphobes'?

SirVixofVixHall · 21/03/2018 15:01

My real name too.

DarthArts · 21/03/2018 14:52

I'm on the list with my real name.

I wasn't on TerfBlocker but was blocked by LM for responding to a tweet with which I disagreed (politely).

I mention TerfBlocker to show that my profile wasn't considered "transphobic" until LM put my name out there.

Since then I've found I've obviously been blocked by many others.

SirVixofVixHall · 21/03/2018 14:33

I would be up for a joint class action, depending on what it would cost. I am worried that this could affect DH's work, and future work i may do. Should add that I have had PTSD related to a serious attack and so this is extremely stressful for me. (Well, as it is for all of us I imagine, as many of us will also, as I do, have young children at home to think of too).

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 21/03/2018 14:21

Would it also be worth contacting people like Graham Linehan (?) and other high profile people who are on the list?

Along the lines of “Hi @ name you are on a list of people who are deemed by @ xname to make Twitter an unsafe space for trans people! The list is defamatory and damaging to the reputation of people on it”

Or
“Hello @ name your reputation along with that of 2000+ people is being potentially defamed by @ lilyshandle. Being on a list of people who make Twitter unsafe for trans people is damaging to the careers of many and contributes to silencing women.”

MsBeaujangles · 21/03/2018 14:18

I think joint action will be the way to go, should it get that far.

Lily would be crazy not to remove the list and clarify that not everyone on the list has done wrong. Once she has been made aware of the issues with publishing such a list, removing only the names of those that contact her would be a very risky strategy. Lily must know that she has blocked people for tenuous reasons that do not implicate them in any way.

If the required steps are not taken within the 10 day timeframe, I am sure those of us who can make a strong case for 'serious harm' can get together for a class action. I don't think they'll be any problems raising the money for this.

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CircleSquareCircleSquare · 21/03/2018 14:12

What interests me in all this, is you can be placed on a list of people who are making Twitter an unsafe space for trans people for “liking” a tweet.

Twitter has been round for over a decade now, until about a year ago what is now the heart button was a star button. Many people used that not only to “like” a tweet but to bookmark something for later reading. It would be safe to say many people still use heart as a bookmark facility.

So not only are people like LM policing (which is what they are doing because they are making people fear for their jobs and reputations) which tweets you like but also tweets you may be bookmarking for future reference or to read a link later on. That suggests to me they want to label people for 1. engaging with opinion and 2. stop people reading things that they don’t like. Now you can’t even read an opposing view point without being placed on a list.

I’m not on the list but will donate serious sums to anyone who wants to pursue this if there is a genuine legal case to be heard.

DarthArts · 21/03/2018 14:05

OP I think quite a few people are concerned about this.

Is it worth sending a letter as a joint action as it were with multiple signatories?

Appreciate this may be more complex - so just a thought.

Possibly there's more weight behind sending multiple letters but maybe it's good to coordinate them perhaps and agree the salient points to make?

DarthArts · 21/03/2018 14:00

The only other thing I saw LM related to the list was saying no one they represent is on it.

Not easy to fathom what that means. Is is anyone in LM's CLP? And if so how does LM know this?

Not everyone uses their real name or gives their location. In the other thread it was suggested LM might be cross checking with LP data but I'm probably a bit skeptical about that tbh but who knows.

Calling lawyers and data protection gurus
RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 13:58

Good stuff.

This was inevitable. It has to come to this.

Perhaps the Labour Party have been waiting for this to happen as a way to get rid, and will throw under the bus when the shit hits the fan rather than be the ones to take action themselves...

MsBeaujangles · 21/03/2018 13:46

Just had a good chat with a lawyer who says that it sounds like there is a good libel case. There are also data protection issues, but I am interested in the serious harm to reputation angle as a result of being on the list. Due to my professional role and the people who follow me on Twitter, this isn't all that hard to prove.

So far, I have seen that LM has referred to the list as follows: ‘I'm sharing my block list which you can subscribe to here [link to list]. It’s important twitter is a safe space for trans people and unfortunately that means utilising things like this. Please RT for trans users!’.

If LM has made any further references to the list, please can you send me a screen shot.

The lawyer has suggested I contact LM to advise they cease and desist and, within 10 days, provide written assurance of this. I will ask for my details to be removed from the list, for reassurance that they will not be placed on it again and for a public statement to be made that the the list contained details of people who had done no wrong. If that fails, the lawyer will send a formal cease and desist letter and we’ll take it from there.

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RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 13:44

GDPR is totally irrelevant at present. It only is after it comes into law and actions after that date only may be enforced only.

KochabRising · 21/03/2018 13:43

You're right; but they wouldn't apply until GDPR comes into force.

Absolutely.

Since every single reputable company i know is scrambling to get GDPR readiness in place before May, it does cast labour in a rather a bad light. Unaware or just not caring? Neither is good.

Lily appears to be completely unaware of how to operate in the world at large. They are a liability to the LP. Surely all political parties have social media policies and training? And someone monitoring output (and response)?

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