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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Calling lawyers and data protection gurus

117 replies

MsBeaujangles · 21/03/2018 10:20

What is the legal situation when it comes to being placed on a published list which is claimed to be a list of 'TERFs and transphobes'?
I am thinking defamation of character comes in to play if the suggestion is that the people on the list are bigoted, incite hate and deny trans people their rights. I am on such a list and am confident that I have not said anything remotely even 'anti trans'.
I think sending Cease and Desist letters could legitimately be sent, demanding the list holder immediately cease and desist their unlawful defamation and provide prompt written reassurance within 10 days they they will cease and desist from further defamation.
Whilst the list is of Twitter names, my account is not anonymous.

Also, is there anything preventing people from applying defamation law when they are very publicly called transphobic?

OP posts:
fascinated · 22/03/2018 12:56

Wiggypig

Is there a way to join your group of feminist lawyers pls? Pls pm me. I will provide credentials ie SRA number etc)

SirVixofVixHall · 22/03/2018 12:43

Wiggypig, it would be wonderful if you could look at it. The mere existence of lists like this makes women afraid to stand up and say what they feel on self id and gender issues, and the inherent problems for women within. Seeing those problems doesn't make us bigots.

WiggyPig · 22/03/2018 11:52

I was coming in to say that providing the "serious harm" threshold can be established it would likely be defamation, but I see Mr Castle has beaten me to it!

I am involved in a little group of feminist lawyers. I wonder whether it might be something we could look at.

TanquerayTickles · 22/03/2018 11:41

Thank you Howls and Mr Howls! Much appreciated.

Are people sending the letter to Rochester and Strood CLP?

CapnHaddock · 22/03/2018 11:30

Thank you Howls (and Mr Howls). That's great. I shall be writing my letter to Mr Madigan this evening Smile

howlsmovingcastle84 · 22/03/2018 11:08

Hello,
I have included a link that should (hopefully!) take you to a google document for the letter that can be sent directly to LM. DH suggested not posting directly onto the internet in full as it is a legal letter. It is based on the information shared yesterday and yes you can legally start it with 'Dear Sir' :-)
There are a couple of bits that need filling in: name etc and where it says 'set out factual inaccuracies..' just a line or two disputing the above. You can select one of two options in number 3 of the demands. If you have any questions or problems let me know! I've not posted links to mumsnet before so hopefully it will work!

docs.google.com/document/d/1LioJAReBriVc_8vD5bphi1ExuZ-74CHKA4sx8x1b7NI/edit?usp=sharing

RedToothBrush · 22/03/2018 10:47

And never piss off MN.

Wink
SirVixofVixHall · 22/03/2018 09:39

Yes. I love Mumsnet for this amazing network of wonderful women.

sashh · 22/03/2018 09:22

Her

So true.

And practical help too, you find a stray kitten, it gets a home. Your wedding dress is too small someone will alter it. You need witnesses for a wedding - just ask them to put knickers on their heads so you recognise them.

HerFemaleness · 22/03/2018 09:16

What I love about mumsnet is that you can put a shout out for a neuroscientist or a solicitor or an expert in 11th century Tibetan pottery and somebody will come along and say ''yep, Tibetan pottery expert here''.

SirVixofVixHall · 21/03/2018 22:53

Thank you. So no point contacting the council then?

HairyBallTheorem · 21/03/2018 22:51

Sir, LM is women's officer in LM's constituency Labour party (it is an elected position).

SirVixofVixHall · 21/03/2018 22:50

So just what role does LM have? Is it a council post, or just a minor post within the party?

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 21/03/2018 22:18

Your husband is top notch!

LifelongVaginaOwner · 21/03/2018 22:13

Thanks Mr Howl or Castle.

SecretsRSecrets · 21/03/2018 21:44

Wow @howlsmovingcastle84 you have a wonderful DH! Huge thank you to him for taking the time!! and someWine

SirVixofVixHall · 21/03/2018 21:39

Huge thanks to your DH howismoving.

BlackeyedSusan · 21/03/2018 21:28

Thank Mr castles84.

howlsmovingcastle84 · 21/03/2018 21:18

Hello,

Had a chat with husband about this-in summary: (over to DH!)

The tweet (from LM talking about the block list) is likely to be libel and because of the seriousness of the defamation, would probably satisfy the 'serious harm' threshold. See Court of Appeal judgment in Lachaux in September 2017 which clarified the law in this regard.

Damage to reputation can include false allegations which cause others to shun or avoid the named person - this would include blocking on Twitter.

It would not be a defence to say no harm was caused because it was limited to the Twitter website and no harm was suffered in 'real life'. The libel on Twitter can be judged by the harm to reputation in the context of the Twitter universe.

The DPA avenue is worth considering and adding to any letter as there seems to be processing personal information by using Blocktogether.org. it is not solely for domestic purposes and therefore the perpetrator is at real risk of falling within the definition of data controller under the DPA. This position alone would lead to numerous legal requirements in terms of notification and registration with ICO and compliance with the principles in the DPA. When GDPR comes into force in May they would also need to write to each named person explaining what data is being processed.

Back to me: hope that is helpful! If you have any other questions please feel free to ask-my husband loves a good legal puzzle :-) He is also finding a draft version of a cease and desist letter that could be used.

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 21/03/2018 19:04

Make sure you’re taking screen shots of the list, including any titles and where you feature on it.

SticksOutLikeDogsBalls · 21/03/2018 19:02

I am not in the UK so am unsure of your laws but wouldn't this list come under the hate crimes laws?
Basically it is inciting hate

SirVixofVixHall · 21/03/2018 18:43

I'm not, but others may be? ps Dorothyparka, am so jealous of your user name.

dorothyparka · 21/03/2018 17:51

If you're a member of a union/professional body you might be entitled to (free) legal advice

SirVixofVixHall · 21/03/2018 17:28

howismoving- that is very helpful, thank you.

howlsmovingcastle84 · 21/03/2018 17:22

Shared the thread with my lawyer husband. He's at work so only responding by text but he seems to think that there is something worth investigating here and that there have been some recent cases that might assist. I'll probe him further when he gets home.

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