Radio 4 now

Yes Lucy really rocked!
Please everyone have no tolerance for that 'trans woman, black woman' equivalence argument. It is as racist as hell and please have no hesitation in saying so to whoever is using it.

Reposting from the petition thread in the hopes Lucy will see this:

I sent my MIL the petition link last week. Lucy Masoud’s interview on the Today programme yesterday convinced her to sign. Go MIL!

Thank you Lucy!

"Women with trans experience" sounds to be like a detransitioned transman or maybe Jack Munroe?

Of course it does. And using it to mean s man who “feels” he’s a woman, is yet another example of mysogyny.

Wow just wow! Ok I have succumbed and will now have to tell my gay DD that I am a little in love with Lucy. She will love it!

The posters on the 'trans widows' thread are certainly 'women with trans experience'. Oh how eye-opening it would be for many if Radio 4 gave them some airtime.

Or a woman’s who has had to queue behind one in the M&S ladies waiting my turn during a major, messy perimenopausal flooding episode. That’s my most memorable recent trans experience.

"Women with trans experience" sounds to be like a detransitioned transman

Or a woman who has work for a trans helpline.

I thought it was a deliberate move so that Emily could round off their dismount from their careful statement with the “so it suits all women” (or whatever the phrase was). It glossed over their being 2 types. Sneaky.

"Women with trans experience" sounds to be like a detransitioned transman or maybe Jack Munroe?

The short version leaves the semi-off-mike bit out . It is necessary to fish about in the long version for that.

I saw the thing with Alex earlier. He was pulling his hat down hard over his ears. I thought InnCognito was doing well, but he was putting his ear muffs on over the hat, so he wasn't going to hear anything.

Alex needs a 'lightbulb moment' so damn badly - something tells me it won't happen. He won't allow himself to have it - because he then would be open to being called transphobic. And that's the worst thing in world for lefty-dude-bro.

These lefty men will throw women under the bus, rather than dissect trans ideology to analyse what it really means. They chant "transwomen are women" to salve their conscience.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p061vb3g

I don't know if anyone has already posting this, but there is a nice shortened sharable version of the interview with Lucy Massoud and Emily Brothers on the I-player now, so you don't have to go faffing around trying to find the right bit.

Wow, Lucy was amazing, she came over so well!

Yes, I'm utterly sick of the black women argument. It's disingenuous and bloody offensive!

We need to pull them up on it every single time - feminism has never made out black women are a "subset of women" or "biologically different" to white women

Intersectional feminism recognises that WOC have additional oppression, as they are more likely to suffer racism in addition to women's oppression.

Intersectional feminism never used to include penises. Or men. It shouldn't now. FFS - I can't believe it's coming to this - that we're actually having to argue this shit.

Particularly questioning why, and I quote, 'trans women, black woman, poor women and disabled women' weren't woman enough for her feminism.

Oh my god, do they have no shame??? It pisses me off so much when this line is trotted out. FYI, I have not met a feminist who denies that black, poor or disabled women are women. Most feminists are fighting for these groups because they are particularly oppressed. It's such an idiotic myth and a blatant way to prove how feminists are so bigoted, racist and ableist. Well, guess what? We have never denied that these groups are women. The only group we have an issue with are MEN saying that they are women. But obviously that would make us sound too sensible and logical, so better chuck in some racism.

Well done for calling him out btw. Prick.

InnCognito

Well done - I think you made him consider his knee-jerk acceptance of the Trans agenda, and he rather shot the messenger!

@InnCognito well done. He’s having to think about it, at least. Even if you’re not friends any more

I think if a few more blokes like him had it politely pointed out to them that it’s not equivalent to gay marriage or race segregation, they might start getting on board with it. Here’s hoping.

Good name. Shame about the 'friend'

Quick little update (with a name change) for those of you who were following @sturdyalex's response to this on Twitter.

I've been friends with Alex on Facebook for a while. Anyway he posted about this on his page including a bit of an imagined conversation with a woman growing up now challenging her older mother on her feminism. Particularly questioning why, and I quote, 'trans women, black woman, poor women and disabled women' weren't woman enough for her feminism.

I posted that many black women find this offensive as it groups black women with transwomen, thus implying that black women are not biologically women - you know like transwomen aren't.

This did not go well. He first asked me to delete my comment because I was calling him racist. I pointed out I wasn't and said this is a position that some black women hold. I even helpfully provided him with a tweet from a black woman making this exact point. I think he was slightly irked that I pointed out that Lucy Masoud was highly likely to beat him in 'intersectional top trumps'.

This led to him private messaging me, ever more irately, deleting my comment (which let's face it he could have just done in the first place) and finally 'unfriending' me.

And you know what. I don't regret one thing.

Lucy Masoud at WPUK meeting in London

'A Woman's Place is Taking a Stand'

@CaptainCardamon and @Terftastic YY to the liberal lefty feminist blokes.

Loads of men are like this - loads and loads. It just takes a few of them though, influential ones, to see the lie, and it will open up the discussion.

My DH is a good lefty liberal sort. He’d say he’s a feminist - but he’s not coming from a woman’s perspective so he really needs some elements of misogyny spelled out to him. The whole NAMALT thing proves it, imo.

Of course NAMALT. Or NATALT - and that’s what it centres on at the moment, that horrid radical feminists (not “women”) are saying ALL TRANS ARE BAD = transphobia is rife. But it is not that. Once the men understand they will shift, I’m sure.

But probably what will happen is everyone will drop self ID and concentrate on the under the radar changes to the law that are happening by default - girl guides, schools etc.

Quote from the BBC interview: "Women with a trans experience".

This phrase should refer to biologically female people (i.e. women) who claim to be men (also known as transmen).

But the male-centric ideology of transgenderism is deliberately trying to force everyone to assume and believe that "women with trans experience" refers to transwomen (biologically male people who claim to be women).

Transgenderism is a male rights movement.

what really terrifies them is the possibility of being accused of being a bigot or failing to be right-on in some way and dying of shame

Blimey, imagine them having a period ever.

We need to shame them for kicking the TIMs out of the men box. What happened to sharing lads?