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Original poster

Lesbian's and the Trans debate

234 replies

DJLippy · 20/03/2018 03:36

I was wondering what peoples thoughts were regarding the impacts that transgenderism was having specifically on lesbians and the 'erasure' of lesbian identity. I am concerned that many public debates are ignoring their concerns. I don't think the LGBT 'community' is representing them properly and I think that women need to understand and address the specific concerns they have. Lesbian, bi-sexual and straight women should speak up together because I think that we have an insight that men lack.

If you haven't done so already I would ask everyone to check out Magdalen Berns who speaks so eloquently about the trans debate but it's impacts on young gay and lesbian people.

www.youtube.com/channel/UCvTTakI97sQ4SkMnsH8r0qQ

I think there are two main areas that I have identified are of particular concern.

  1. The extremely high (2:1) rates of referrals to gender-dysphoria clinics of girls and young lesbians. Heather-Brunswick Evans work is very interesting here, especially as regards the impact that porn and an overly-sexualised media is having female self-identity. I have heard people express fears that this is in effect 21st century conversion therapy whereby young gay and lesbian children will be effectively steralised and neutered.

  2. The encroachment of transwomen on lesbian spaces . I think that Reiley J Dennis is a brilliant example of this. In my opinion he is a predatory and dangerous misogonist who is using the 'trans' cover to bully and intimidate young lesbian or sexuality questioning women. This was really brought home to me yesterday after I had a conversation on twitter with a male lesbian which quickly escalated into a creepy and overtly sexualised interaction. He obviously did not have a 'female' brain - he behaved like a classic misoginist sex pest, who did not respect my boundaries even after I made this clear to him that he was making me feel uncomfortable. It really gave me an insight into how this would impact on lesbians. I think that we take our spaces for granted. I lived in Manchester which is known for it's gay scene but still it only has 1 lesbian bar. It's important that these spaces are protected, especially for young lesbians who need a safe space to explore their sexuality.

This is not meant as an attack on trans people. I am not saying that all trans people are dangerous predators or that they don't exist. However, there is an alarming rise in transgender treatments and a small minority of very dangerous and aggressive autogenophiles. It's right that we should ask questions.

I hope to start a discussion and invite comments from anyone with an insight or any worries. This is just two areas I found of particular concern from my own research I'm hoping other people can share their expertise. I know that I am not a lesbian but it reminds me of that famous line about Nazi Germany.

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one ..."

I think that it would be really helpful if we started to educate ourselves about the threats that lesbians are facing and started to speak out more. Lesbian, Bi-sexual, straight or male: United we stand, divided we fall.

OP posts:
Datun · 20/03/2018 08:14

DJLippy

This is a recurring theme. Here is a thread where the OP has set out exactly how lesbianism is being erased, from her point of view.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3146166-Transactivism-and-the-lesbian-community

Justanotherzombie

You do realise, don't you, just how many of the women on here are lesbian, or bisexual?

If your lesbian friends are not affected by this issue, then like absolutely everything else, it doesn't apply to them.

I get really fed up with people saying we'll that's not happening to me, so don't talk about it.

If it's not happening to you, ignore it.

WiggyPig · 20/03/2018 08:06

I'm a lesbian. I'm gender critical and also have a lot of trans friends (large LGBT friendship group). None of them would ever or have ever suggested it's transphobic to be a lesbian, that seems to be something that comes from "cis allies"

Of all the things which I find to be critical about with regards to gender and ideology, this is a long way down the bottom of my list. Young women need to be taught about constructing and maintaining their own boundaries and TBH straight girls seem to be having a lot more problems with that at the moment than young lesbians.

NannyOggsKnickers · 20/03/2018 08:06

Zombie Are they those kind of people who believe Mumsnet is populated just by het women? Because that is quite obviously not true.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 20/03/2018 08:03

My lesbian friends are utterly aghast and baffled at mumsnet using them as a victim in the trans debate

I saw a variant of this one on twitter recently - something like 'as a survivor of sexual violence I'm aghast at being used by terfs to bolster their arguments'

We're not using you, you numpties. We're using us.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 20/03/2018 07:56

My lesbian friends are utterly aghast and baffled at mumsnet using them as a victim in the trans debate

Just mumsnet?

Not reddit or twitter or anything

Just mumsnet

ladyballs · 20/03/2018 07:31

I peak transed over the cotton ceiling some years ago. Noone should be coerced into sex. That's rape.

I'm bi. I like men to be men and women to be women. It shouldn't be controversial for women to choose our own sexual partners.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 20/03/2018 07:28

Lesbians on Reddit GenderCritical have been saying for a long time how they have no safe spaces any more - all taken over by TIMs. Same for gay men.

They feel marginalised and alone - again. I know over where I am (OZ) many straight and gay women feel ostracised by men in what used to be single sex spaces. Refuges etc being run by guys in some cases. It really is a mess and no doubt a fight back by MRAs.

AnotherQuoll · 20/03/2018 04:26

Really, Zombie? Because, as a lesbian, (the real, female kind), I appreciate that Mumsnet is one place I won't be abused by transactivists as a "terf" for being same-sex oriented. Because women here aren't massive lesbophobes. It's nice to have the support.

Justanotherzombie · 20/03/2018 03:55

My lesbian friends are utterly aghast and baffled at mumsnet using them as a victim in the trans debate.