Lesbian's and the Trans debate

It certainly isn't a grassroots movement to have basically straight make transvestites crashing lesbian sites, groups, venues and demand actual lesbians' time, attention, interest and sexual desire. Just like adding T to LGB, just like changing that T from Transsexual to "Transgender", it's a top down decision imposed on us without our having a say.

Riley Dennis has the most alarming Adams apple I've ever seen. He looks like he swallowed a hand and it's trying to get out. I would probably be less inclined to notice this if he wasn't so fond of promoting corrective rape for lesbians who have the nerve to clearly state their lack of interest in cock.

A lot of TRAs are definitely misfits trying to find a place for themselves. I'd be more sympathetic if they didn't spend so much of their time sending rape and death threats to women.

These are people who believe that their identity takes precedence over material reality, so a male lesbian is a male who identifies as a lesbian and expects women to treat them as such.
2+2=5

What the fuck is a male lesbian?!

Oh ok Juzza12. I thought you were saying that they were claiming he killed them because 'how dare they not accept him as a lesbian', so therefore he was justified because they were using 'literal violence' against him.

Just reminded me of another person posting that a TW was recently killed because of Terfs and transphobes creating panic, rather than the reality that it was just another case of a man being violent and killing someone.

I hate this 'create your own victim' mentality, instead of looking at facts.

I'm sorry Juzza12! I had a lightbulb moment after I was off doing something else, but still thinking about all of this.

Do you mean they are victim blaming?!

Three Murder Victims! Will be interesting to find out where this case will fall in the stats. Was pleased to see that they managed to add in some history in the news stories.

Wish the founder of Mitchfest was on MN.

I just looked that case up Juzza12 and I found this interesting link:

genderidentitywatch.com/2018/03/12/dana-rivers-usa/

They also mention MNer posieparker on the site. They have a blurb and this:

We stand with Posie Parker and support her right to publicly reject transgenderism and gender identity activism.

LonginesPrime

From what I can gather, it's younger lesbians (including school-age), and also those who are 'on the scene'.

Maybe it's more about hook up places?

Because, presumably, it would have to be a place where transwomen are prevalent (online, bars/clubs and dating sites).

So I am sure there are many lesbians for whom this simply doesn't appear on their radar.

It's slightly more worrying with the younger generation, because they are being surrounded by the narrative that lesbian does not mean same-sex attraction amongst women.

It's all over YouTube, Twitter, tumblr, etc. And it's often not random. Like it isn't random for women generally. There is a deliberate targeting.

Vancouver women's library, the Salford working women's resource, that lesbian vegan restaurant (the name escapes me), etc. Places transwomen would not generally even go to, but targeted deliberately because they are women only.

Read up about Mitchfest. The largely lesbian, women only festival that has been held annually for 40 years.

It was targeted, fairly violently, by transactivists claiming they were lesbian and it was exclusionary. And it has now shut down. After 40 years.

The real shame to this is that, apparently, transwomen (the old style transsexuals, who didn't claim they were lesbians) were always welcome.

Thanks all for the helpful references.

Anotherquoll, at no point did I say that anyone was lying or that real women were imagining their own experiences. I feel I made that quite clear.

How about asking yourself why you find it so difficult to believe that men may behave toward lesbians the way that men behave toward women in general

As a lesbian, I get quite a lot of hassle from random blokes. I just haven't personally experienced it from transwomen. However, other people obviously have different experiences so I was asking about theirs.

It's not that I find it difficult to believe that men are often awful to women. I never said anything close to that. I just want to make sure that I'm armed with actual facts and evidence if I have conversations with people on this topic IRL, both so I don't get labelled a thoughtless bigot and so I actually know what I'm talking about.

Same old, same old: Women assumed to be lying/exaggerating/imaginining the abuse received from males. Longines, there are accounts from lesbians all over the net about this happening in real life and online. It happens.

How about asking yourself why you find it so difficult to believe that men may behave toward lesbians the way that men behave toward women in general: As if they are entitled to our time, interest, nurturing and love, along with sexual access to our bodies.

@LonginesPrime Nora Calder had her job threatened due to saying if she was a lesbian that meant she wasn't interested in penises.

@LonginesPrime trying to find some articles for you about RL happenings. HTH

There was a fairplay4women article that listed (and was an ongoing list I think?) all the bad things that were happening to women. I think this might be the one, but if not does any one else have it?

fairplayforwomen.com/misogyny_hate_silencing/

Thanks Datun, I'll check out those websites.

I do hear you re the online dating scene - there are a lot of transwomen identifying as lesbians there. Although I've never had any shit from them personally. And I agree that lesbians who are already coupled up (as lots of my lesbian friends are) wouldn't have this on their radar.

thebewilderness, that's why I was asking the question though - because none of my lesbian friends IRL are talking about this issue or having any problems they're discussing (including quite a few lesbians fresh out of uni). I'm not moving in the circles where this stuff is happening, so I was curious as to whether/where it is happening. I'm not suggesting it's not though.

Negatives are hard to prove, as you know.
Where are the Lesbian bars and book stores of former days? What happened to the Lesbian groups at Uni?
I read personal stories every day from Lesbians young and old who are experiencing intimidation and abuse from transgender identified males. If you want to know what is happening to Lesbians you need to go to them, Longines, rather than wait here for them to come to you.

If transgender identified males carrying baseball bats to intimidate Lesbians at PRIDE doesn't move you, what will?

Gendertrender, run and mostly populated by lesbians often document what they see as lesbian erasure, LonginesPrime. A lot of them are American and they talk about the demise of lesbian only spaces.

Might be worth a look.

Lesbian online dating sites are another area. A girlfriend of mine who is lesbian says you can't move for men identifying as women.

Magdelen Berns herself, was thrown out of Edinburgh University LGBT group for saying she wouldn't sleep with a lesbian who had a penis.

I imagine lesbians in relationships, or older lesbians, whose social network is already fairly established aren't the target.

But younger lesbians, going online to find networks. I think that's where the problems are more prevalent.

It's one of those unintended consequences that isn't being recorded.

So a lot, at the moment, is hearsay and anecdote.

On the website antifemale receipts, there is a dedicated section to lesphobia from transwomen. Be warned it's fairly grim.

But, I imagine, this is running in tandem with the threats that women are getting from trans-activists.

There is no official collation of data. Just very many women talking about it.

It's not that I think online behaviour doesn't matter, but a TRA theorising that lesbians are transphobic (the same way they say lots of people are transphobic for ridiculous reasons) online is different from lesbians being abused and assaulted in real life. If that is happening then obviously that's terrible.

But if I were to raise a concern about the specific threat that transwomen are posing to lesbians with my friends in the pub, they would think I had gone mad if I said my strong feelings were based on having seen a screenshot of an anonymous note saying that 'someone said so on reddit..'.

There is a lot of shit said online and I'm not saying that it doesn't signal a general trend towards a particular way of thinking (and I appreciate your point about young people spending so much time online). However, if I hear a militant TRA saying something unreasonable, I'll read it in that context. If someone I respected who was usually quite sensible said those things, I would be more inclined to be concerned.

Someone on here recently claimed in a blog they posted that Stonewall has apparently withdrawn all services for lesbians on the basis the whole concept of lesbianism is transphobic. Obviously, this would be terrible so I went straight to the Stonewall website to check and, not being able to find this, asked the poster for a source, which never materialised.

If these things people are hearing are from reliable sources, I'm obviously going to be concerned and will put time and resources into activism and raising awareness among my networks. But I haven't seen a credible threat at this point. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I just want some evidence before I get worked up about it.