Law Society virtue signalling

I have been nominated (by myself ) for this award.

I hope that my citation wins the approval of the MN jury. Apologies if it doesn't go and do your own nomination!
An extract (I'll save you the full 500 words) reads as:

'Female' refers to the biological sex that has the potential to bear offspring; the holder of the XX chromosome. There is no confusion over female and male. 'Woman' is more problematic. It used to mean 'adult female' but it seems to be slipping into 'what we expect(ed) females to look like i.e. the gendered stereotype of the female'. Gender is a social construct. It is indefinable, malleable and a product of its times.

You comment that "In 2017, women solicitors represented more than half the profession, however still too few women reach senior level positions". I have a feeling that you meant to say 'females'. The reason why females tend not to reach the senior levels is not because of the outward expression of gender - skirts or high heels - but because of the effect of biological sex - menstruation, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding and also all the medical complications arising from the aforementioned - on their careers. People who have the XY chromosome, males and male-to-female transwomen, do not have this interruption. Pregnancy etc can have several effects on females: actual pregnancy, discrimination against those suspected to be contemplating pregnancy and, most importantly, the whole system being set up to facilitate males (the patriarchy). Transwomen do not face these obstacles. Transwomen have not grown up being oppressed by males. They cannot simply self-identify and overnight think that they understand the female condition. It is insulting to females to think that transwomen can represent females. You might as well go the whole hog and say that manly males can speak for them, and totally silence the female voice. Plus ça chance, plus c'est la même chose.

The award is open to solicitors who identify as a woman. I am a womanly-ish female but I am not actually a qualified Solicitor. However, after closely following various television series I feel that I know all about being a senior-level Solicitor and therefore am eligible for this award. I trust that the Law Society does not find this self-identification at all offensive and contrary to their ethos, and that you find my submission worthy.

I don't much care what the specific example is, in this case an award.

I care for the acceptance of a PRINCIPLE that has wide ranging consequences.
I care that the law is unpicking the definition of an entire class of people and their protections.

Oh, and to the twerp who called us bigots? Grow up and stop parading your ignorance on this subject.

Transwomen are men. All of them. Even your friends.
Biological sex is immutable, and I won't pretend a man's preference for stereotypes has anything to do with my biology. He can have all the stereotypes he wants but he doesn't get to define them as being the new, definitive 'female'.

Chatty, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask to see the policy - as you say, it might be that HR aren't even aware of the issue (or haven't thought it through), and as an employee, you're perfectly entitled to seek guidance as to your employer's stance on the matter.

Elle, yes, an applicable case would be ideal (as well as hopefully stopping this wider direction of travel?). I could just ‘helpfully’ point out a legal risk for management to address. They would not have to really look back at their own decision making thus far then. (Though who knows, maybe the conversation was just never had and this colleague just decided they would use the womens toilets and HR were not sure what how to respond, so just left it up to us to object,- and so they just never formalised anything.)
I am tempted to self ID as a man and start using the gents at work to see how they like it though.

Hi Chatty

There’s definitely health and safety legislation on your side.

It’s difficult to raise your head above the parapet with sexist behaviour so you have my sympathy. I think that personally I wouldn’t take this tack as there’s too much to lose.

I think we should concentrate on a test case on the grounds of indirect discrimination that isn’t personal against eg The Law Society or Swim England and if this succeeds then you can point to that at work

Agree Italian- am tempted to apply for loads of inappropriate awards just to wake organisations and judging panels up a bit!

I am mulling over this.

My view is that the LS is discriminating against women by introducing the self id provision.

It disproportionately negatively affects women who are statistically more likely to bear the burden of being the primary child care provider/ work part time/ have less time outside of work to network etc and therefore they are not on an even playing field with transwomen in this competition.

I reckon that’s indirect discrimination as defined by the Equality Act?

Thanks Longines and Morning I am thinking about what to do. It is difficult because AFAIK no other complaints from my colleagues, could just be me that objects to this. But I don’t know.
Then because it is one male-bodied individual who had already been using the womens toilets at work for some time, it could become personalised to me vs that individual- who management evidently see as a special case whose expectations should be met. I would fear coming off worse.

*think not this

I hate autocorrect

I do not support special awards for women within a profession.

Well of course you wouldn’t if you don’t this that there is sexism in that profession

Those of us who have experienced it understand the importance of things like this.

I do not support special awards for women within a profession.

LassWiADelicateAir I don’t mean to be rude but I’m a bit confused about your contributions to this thread. You have said that you are a lawyer in a Scottish firm and have not had any problems as a woman there and cannot see the point of an award for a top female lawyer.

This is an award for lawyers in England and Wales where there are rampant problems with sexism, especially in London (as evidenced by both the Law Society survey and the anecdotes of the English lawyers who have contributed to this thread).

If you are in a work environment where you are lucky enough not to be affected by sexism then good for you, but your comments that this isn’t necessary because law is a great choice for women are ill-informed and at best irrelevant in the context of practising law in England and Wales.

Lass, there are various arguments against things like awards for women and All Women Shortlists.

However, there is a gender pay gap and the biggest factor affecting the gender pay gap is women's disproportionate caring responsibilities, particularly after they have had children.

Legislation has improved, but it has only very recently changed so that both men and women can share parental leave, and very few men actually take shared parental leave or go on the 'daddy track'. Senior people in their fifties and older are likely to have had children before men took any paternity leave and when women's maternity leave was much shorter.

Many industries still assume that if their high flying employees have children they have a Stay at Home Partner. Women in their thirties are still assumed to be likely to go on maternity leave.

You might not agree with positive affirmation, but the point is that the issues that affect women and trans women are different. If you are going to go down the positive affirmation route, you need to be clear about what the problem is, not just have some vague wishy washy idea about being generally nice to all people who suffer discrimination. You might as well have best female/BAME/disabled lawyer award.

There is a very strong argument that trans women suffer far more discrimination than women. However that is because they are gender non-conforming, not because people think they are just going to drop everything for the school play. If you are going to have an award, be clear about why it is necessary. Otherwise it is just patronising and pointless.

Missbeehiving, congratulations on your team's awards.

Congrats on your awards!
Great to hear your self belief too!

Missbeehiving, congratulations on your team's awards. I'm not suggesting that they're not well-deserved.

The difference between the team and individual awards is that while the team awards are based on reasoning and evidence provided by the applicant, the individual awards require third party testimonials, press cuttings, etc. I'm not suggesting that the individuals who win these awards don't deserve them, but the testimonials they provide from third parties will carry weight with the judges, so the people who are either better at self-promotion and/or who happen to know the more persuasive influential people do have an advantage.

@thanksjaneshusbandatcaresouth

Completely agree but the law is key to self ID and so solicitors mobilising too on this is fantastic. There are 100s and 100s of ways in which this will impact people. Each one is someone's sphere of work or influence or personal life, and it's valid for everyone to reflect on the impact and feedback as much as possible.

Lass. It was never my cup of tea either, but now the men are included for their womanly achievements it's dead.

When I read the stuff about Phil Bunce explaining how he now reverse mentors the board about how to make his life better you can see the T track super clearly.

What has that go to to do with women (protected characteristic - sex)? Give him a T award for being gender fluid, this is what the Times Newspaper is celebrating with Phil's award. It's either a Trans (protected characteristic gender reassignment) in Finance award or an award for men (protected characteristic - sex)in Finance.

MrsBertBibby I assume your friend is fully transitioned? If so, can I ask whether you are aware of the differences between your friend and the likes of Philip/‘Pippa’ Bunce who ‘self identifies’ on days when they ‘feel a bit female?’ He gets it both ways - with none of the disadavantages of being a biological woman trying to get on in her career with all the disadvantages her biological sex confers - but he can dress up in a frock occasionally, swoop in and win a women’s award!

Or do these differences have to be explained YET AGAIN to someone who lands in the middle of a thread shouting ‘bigot?’ We are well aware of the differences and it’s the ridiculousness of self-id that we’re discussing here. And not ‘squabbling,’ thank you.

I’m afraid that a poster did - see MrsBertBibby @19.2

Nope

@ChattyLion

Brilliant post.

"The irony of the Law Society acting to be ‘ahead’ of the law."

Yes, they are taking the law into their own hands. How absurd. That shows they really do not recognise 'woman' as a material reality.

What's next?

I murdered a person but am self identifying as a person who committed man slaughter not murder! Fuck me, you could not make it up!

"But looking to the positives... Does this mean I can now identify as a solicitor and enter myself?"

Why not try.

"I mean I know it’s a long shot to win seeing as how I am a boring old ‘actual woman’ and all. But I do stuff to help other women and I am good at my job so once I identify as a solicitor i’m at least In with a chance right?"

I think someone should do this and get channel 4 to make a documentary about it.

Lass - I’m afraid that a poster did - see MrsBertBibby @19.2

I took her comment to refer to all of these awards not just the one for

The Law Soc has a female vice president this year - Christina Blacklaws and it may be worth contacting her

I had already said I am in a Scottish firm- why would I contact the vice president of the Law Society of England and Wales about an award I don't support?

I was being a bit tongue in cheek! Because we are not recognised as equal it may Stoll have some value. Do women solicitors want us to write in and complain.

I think men love including self iding trans women now. They can pretend to be inclusive while really it I'd still all male!

@Jon66 if it's all about inclusion why don't we include everyone in the best woman solicitor category? Oh yes because if everyone is included it is not really a category!