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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's Place meeting, Oxford - 25th April

292 replies

TerfyMcTerface · 15/03/2018 21:23

Just spotted on Twitter that Women's Place are holding a meeting in Oxford next month. I don't think the tickets are on sale yet.

Is anyone on here going to go?

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Ereshkigal · 05/05/2018 10:10

Easy to come away thinking that transactivism consists of a cosy circuit of support groups and the occasional courageous protest against hate groups.

Yes I can imagine.

velourvoyageur · 05/05/2018 10:09

It was fine, there was a nice atmosphere, sat on my hands when WPUK mentioned. Easy to come away thinking that transactivism consists of a cosy circuit of support groups and the occasional courageous protest against hate groups.
Main takeaway is that the uni's admin systems (library/dept/college) seem to be very decentralised so you run into all sorts of headaches if you want to change your name (for whatever reason), which of course is a general problem that should be fixed. However it wasn't mentioned that Ox has actually been taking steps to address this (read about it a few months ago I believe).

Ereshkigal · 05/05/2018 09:52

How was it velour, despite that omission?

velourvoyageur · 05/05/2018 09:50

Disgusting behaviour. I don't understand these people.

WPUK meeting also misrepresented at trans discussion panel yesterday too btw (briefly mentioned).
One of the main points of discussion was indeed 'transactivism in Oxford', but strangely enough nothing of the kind mentioned in this article quite came up. Guess we must have run out of time because why else would you not want to share your most effective tactic of physically intimidating women, mothers, babies & sexual assault survivors in a discussion where it is so clearly relevant?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 05/05/2018 08:02

Just reviving this thread because there is a fuller account of the behaviour of the picketing students. Disgraceful. www.morningstaronline.co.uk/article/women-have-every-right-discuss-changes-law-could-affect-them

IdentifiesAsMiddleAged · 28/04/2018 18:38

RowanTrees

Thanks for that. What a great post

Thanks @RadFemAngryBird

cromeyellow0 · 28/04/2018 16:55

More accessible version with all tweets together:
twitter.com/i/moments/990001689422979077

R0wantrees · 28/04/2018 16:54

full thread from @RadFemAngryBird in response to activist's attempts to shut down WPUK meeting in Oxford.
(I've taken out the # for easier reading)

twitter.com/i/moments/990001689422979077

l‘m not condemning the meeting of @Womans**PlaceUK but the shameful campaign of bullying and intimidation organised by the students and transactivists outside of the QuakerHouse.
I’ve studied in Oxford, once a capital of freethought and freespeech, known for its fair debates with respect to the opinions of one’s opponents and refreshingly skilful and witty arguments challenging their views.

Bullying, although surfacing occasionally, was never welcome, especially, in the LGBT circles having too many victims of it knowing only too well how much it hurts. But last night the tables have turned - and the bullied became the bullies

I founded TransOxford in 2015 to promote the greater unity and more extensive communications between the separate transgender groups some of which had no idea of the others existing in the same city.

It eventually became a connecting hub between the trans groups in London Brighton, Reading, Swindon, Bristol, Bath.

I was promoting unity and understanding between these groups and the society around them, acceptance and equality and, most importantly, social integration of trans people with the rest of the world.

After all, we all are humans and have more things which unite us than divide us. I stepped down after a while having my doubts about the direction transgender movement was taking and being too busy with my motherhood duties.

Being a woman, i’m a feminist. In the eyes of some radical feminists, I may be a ‘delusional male’ which doesn’t bother me. I look like a woman, live as a woman, accepted by the world at large as a woman, and that’s enough for me, I need no further justification.

My friends include feminists who care for the real cause: women’s safety, health, equal opportunities, empowerment of women and recognition of their achievements.

In today’s Britain where misogyny isn’t a crime but transphobia is, we have too little time to discuss biology and chromosomes. We need to talk about the more important issues. And yes, we all need to talk...

But every time I suggest this to the trans activists, I hear the same arguments in reply: they won’t listen to us, there’s no room for debate, transrights aren’t debatable, they only invite cisgender people...

I believe that ‘cisgender’ and ‘terf’ are as much hurtful and derogatory terms as ‘trannies’. Let’s avoid that language!

I think @Womans**PlaceUK do invite everyone as long as they have something to contribute to the debate. I know a number of transsexuals who attended and spoke at their events (and were immediately branded as apostates by the transcommunity).

‘No debate’ is the only option? What are you going to do with so many women and transsexuals who support @WomansplaceUK ? Eliminate them? Charge them with hatecrime after your lobbyists push through another piece of legislation?
Inviting anyone for an open debate is not a hatecrime. @Womans
PlaceUK has only five things on their agenda they want to discuss. Only five. Is that too much?

They want an open debate on how the new transrights might affect womensrights - what’s wrong with that? It is obvious that their rights will be affected in some way - so why not discuss their concerns in a civilised and evidence based way?

Women only spaces, women only services, gender statistics - all these things matter to a lot of women, men and transgender folks - and need to be discussed.
I think the best way for transwomen to stop transphobia is to start acting like women, looking like women (which would resolve issues of misgendering and access to the women’s #toilets), stop forcing their way into womanhood, wait until you’re accepted & welcomed.

...and if you dislike social expectations of you as a woman (dressing/looking/acting as society expects a woman) - join the #feminist ongoing battle against the patriarchy! Women have a lot in common, so if transwomen are women - they should be able to relate!

There’s so much we could do together.
I’m against transphobia.
I’m against misogyny.
I’m against bullying.
I’m against childish tantrums.
I’m against #patriarchy.

I’m for the gender equality.
I’m for the humankind unity.
I’m for #reedom of speech.
I’m for a dialogue, debate, creativity, wit and peace.
I love you all x
~the end~

R0wantrees · 28/04/2018 15:52

New Twitter account with important perspective:
twitter.com/RadFemAngryBird/status/989509403324841984

Women's Place meeting,  Oxford - 25th April
Women's Place meeting,  Oxford - 25th April
BeyondParody · 27/04/2018 19:18

Arseholes, sweary Angry

Cuntysnark · 27/04/2018 19:15

Flowers sweary

20nil · 27/04/2018 18:05

Sorry sweary Flowers

OlennasWimple · 27/04/2018 17:35

Sweary Flowers

Ereshkigal · 27/04/2018 17:17

It's a gift to the punning arseholes, TERF.

womanhuman · 27/04/2018 17:04

Sweary Flowers

SwearyGodPervert · 27/04/2018 16:56

So the Telegraph can’t see where their code has been broken by publishing my photograph under the headline Quakers caught in Terf war with Oxford University protesters after hosting ‘transphobic’ feminist meeting without seeking permission from me. That they took it down seems to be, in their eyes, enough and not warrant an apology even. Disappointing, but not surprising.

I’d suggest they’ve broken their code even with the headline with the sexist slur TERF, but I’m not sure I have the energy to deal with it. Fucking wankers.

They know I have significant MH issues and are doing this regardless. Bullies.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 27/04/2018 13:18

I hope they were pleasantly surprised by a bunch of middle aged women being polite and pleasant.

I hope the student reporters think a bit about how the women they met have been described by the protesters and what they were actually like. It seems to me a lot of the TRAs can't stand middle aged women having an opinion, no matter how polite and pleasant we are.

20nil · 27/04/2018 12:56

Yes, really quite balanced. Great.

SwearyGodPervert · 27/04/2018 12:48

The student reporters have done a pretty decent job, aside from spelling almost everyone’s name wrong Smile

They were actually very respectful and almost nervous speaking to us. I think they weren’t sure what they were up against because of all the nonsense shared by the OUSU before we met. I hope they were pleasantly surprised by a bunch of middle aged women being polite and pleasant.

Wanderabout · 27/04/2018 12:32

The student publication reporting this puts that article by Francesca Marshall to shame. They spoke to both sides and reported on it. Still spun for the student protestor side in the headline, picture, which view comes first etc. But decent enough news reporting and research done on the two different sides of the debate:

cherwell.org/2018/04/27/students-protest-transphobic-womens-group/

R0wantrees · 27/04/2018 11:04

at 11:50 into the video above Anne makes very clear with nuance her use of terminology.

R0wantrees · 27/04/2018 10:54

Link to Anne's full and unedited speech.

Molleroo · 27/04/2018 10:34

'The crucial issue is to identify how this narrative has been created & by whom and to understand the very serious consequences of this.'

I agree - I think a big problem is that 'trans activists' to the uninitiated sounds logically like people fighting for trans rights - there IS 'transphobia,' and it can be horrendous, but it's mostly men bullying and humiliating trans people. I used to look a lot like a boy in my youth and I got a LOT of that. But that's not what this is about at all. Maybe we need a new name for them? I always make an explicit distinction when I'm talking about this between trans people, whose rights I would defend, and trans activists, who do seem to me to mostly be very confused young people and misogynistic bastards - as Anne Ruzylo identified in that video linked above. I think the former are being co-opted by the latter.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 27/04/2018 10:24

On another note, Anne and Julia look really happy together
twitter.com/sargesalute/status/989639412219826178

Ereshkigal · 27/04/2018 10:18

She was talking about transactivists in the specific context of what they were doing.